Tolkien's final First Age timeline

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

On Celeborn:



I think "[life-years]" in fn6 is wrong; this should be [mortal equivalent] like in the Galadriel text immediately after. Mortal equivalent ages are life-year ages * 3/4, and 45 * 0.75 = 33.75, hence "33-34". So this is just a translation.

When did Celeborn enter Beleriand? Tolkien calculates from the date the Noldor reached Aman (2961), but the main host were all in Beleriand by 2808. If Celeborn only arrived in 2961, then at age 24 he would have been born after most of the tribes were already several decades settled. 2808 is more likely.

24 growth-years is 72 sun-years, meaning Celeborn's approximate (or latest) birthdate is 2736. That date falls towards the end of a childbearing period for the Eldar - the last before they reached Beleriand, when they were settled around Isengard.

Which means Celeborn was born in Fangorn Forest.

Do we know whether the Elmo - Galadhon - Celeborn genealogy is later than the Elmo - Celeborn one discussed here? Elmo was no more than 348 in our Celeborn birth year, but Ingwe was only 109 when Indis was born, so that's easily room for Galadhon in the middle. If Elmo was born by Rhun around 2388, then Galadhon was probably born in Atyamar (Anduin vale) 2579-2590. He could have been born after the Teleri straggled into the Isen settlement, but that pushes him quite close to the 109-year gap with Celeborn.

Plus, I quite like the idea that the Celeborn line were born in the three stops along the March. It's elegant.

hS

Ah, but remember the footnote 5, which states that he was born in Beleriand - however, the footnote also states that the timespan between the arrival of the Eldar in Aman and the overthrow of Morgoth was more than 3,100 years, and since this is both vague and unworkable for the timeline, I assume you decided to ignore the footnote altogether?

Regardless, Celeborn as a 'descendant' (as opposed to 'son') of Elmo is definitely later, judging by the footnote 5.



By the way, if we assume a roughly even spacing between the births of the 25th generation, Elmo should've been born some time around c. 2390. And if Celeborn was born in Beleriand (say, the earliest possible date 2805) - that means that Galadhon his father was born sometime in between, presumably in one of the stops on the March (perhaps 2595, near Isengard)? Does make me wonder though why Elmo was the only one of the three brothers to marry and have kids during the March? (Did Olwe have kids in Middle-earth? Were Earwen and her brothers born in Beleriand? I doubt so, but who knows. Nevermind.)


Also, why do you have Olwe's birth year as 2327? In your timeline, Elwe is born in 2270, so that's 57 years before Olwe - however, Tolkien gives Elwe's birth year as 2126, and Olwe's as 2185, i.e. a difference of 59 years instead. Ditto about Indis and Ingwil (49 years in Tolkien's timeline, 47 in yours). What am I missing? EDIT: Of course, the gestation. However, I'd personally keep the birth years as they are, and adjust the marriage instead. However, I still don't understand Elwe/Olwe discrepancy, it's not like we have the marriage date for their parents.

Additionally, I don't see any obvious reason why you converted the difference in the ages of Ingwe and Ilwen into 9 years (originally 3 years)? I mean, I understand the rationale (growth-years), but I don't understand why it is applicable in this case.

Another thing is, maybe you could add an approximate date for the birth of Ilion, Ingwe's father? If the birth of Ingwe's first child is any indication, Ilion should be born sometime around c. 2107.


EDIT: I also think it might be best to explain that Tolkien messed up his calculation in the XIII.1 timeline (i.e. 2072 vs 2216 as the birth year of Ingwe, for example).

EDIT 2: Nevermind about the above edit, I made it before reading your revised timeline...

EDIT 3: Thanks for the mention!