Ruin of Doriath - Final Part - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Findegil · 11-06-2023, 06:14 AM

RD-SL-03: About the death of Mîm: you are right the scene with the arrow in his throat is in origin the death the traitor Ban from the Lay. We used that for Mîm because the same picture is called for in one version of the curse of Androg. Thus Tolkien seemed to had that kind of death in mind for the trator of Túrins band from a very early time he work on that story (the Lay) to the last (CoH).

RD-SL-05: I myself proposed the same use for the quarrels on the road. But Aiwendil pointe rightly out that this would be a kind of '(miss-) use the words of Tolkien to tell a different story'. We have done such things, but only when forced to by some observed need. In this case we would just add a detail that was in no version that Tolkien created.

Respectfully
Findegil

Arvegil145 · 11-06-2023, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Findegil

RD-SL-03: About the death of Mîm: you are right the scene with the arrow in his throat is in origin the death the traitor Ban from the Lay. We used that for Mîm because the same picture is called for in one version of the curse of Androg. Thus Tolkien seemed to had that kind of death in mind for the trator of Túrins band from a very early time he work on that story (the Lay) to the last (CoH).

But, isn't it explicitly stated in The Wanderings of Húrin that it is Húrin himself who slays Mîm? Quoting:

Quote:

Húrin comes to Nargothrond and slays Mîm the petty-dwarf. He and his men carry off the treasure of Glaurung and bring it to Doriath. Húrin is admitted in pity.

- The War of the Jewels, 'The Wanderings of Húrin', entry 502, p. 258

Findegil · 11-07-2023, 02:44 AM

That is of course an argument against the story we produced, but as you mention yourself this come from a draft in form of a time-line that Tolkien produced while working on the story of Túrin/Húrin. You will find many examples where the later fully developed text of the Narn and/ or The Wanderings of Húrin differ from these priliminary draftings. And the two Versions of Androgs curse upon Mîm we considered to have more weight than this draft. Equaly which version of the curse one takes, none would fit the only full telling from JRR Tolkien of the encounter of Húrin and Mîm from TT nor the later short discribtions. Therefore we concluded that this 'arrow in the throat'was the lasting picture in Tolkiens mind that we should addopt for our version.

Respectfully
Findegi

11-06-2023, 06:14 AM	#1
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	RD-SL-03: About the death of Mîm: you are right the scene with the arrow in his throat is in origin the death the traitor Ban from the Lay. We used that for Mîm because the same picture is called for in one version of the curse of Androg. Thus Tolkien seemed to had that kind of death in mind for the trator of Túrins band from a very early time he work on that story (the Lay) to the last (CoH). RD-SL-05: I myself proposed the same use for the quarrels on the road. But Aiwendil pointe rightly out that this would be a kind of '(miss-) use the words of Tolkien to tell a different story'. We have done such things, but only when forced to by some observed need. In this case we would just add a detail that was in no version that Tolkien created. Respectfully Findegil

11-07-2023, 02:44 AM	#3
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	That is of course an argument against the story we produced, but as you mention yourself this come from a draft in form of a time-line that Tolkien produced while working on the story of Túrin/Húrin. You will find many examples where the later fully developed text of the Narn and/ or The Wanderings of Húrin differ from these priliminary draftings. And the two Versions of Androgs curse upon Mîm we considered to have more weight than this draft. Equaly which version of the curse one takes, none would fit the only full telling from JRR Tolkien of the encounter of Húrin and Mîm from TT nor the later short discribtions. Therefore we concluded that this 'arrow in the throat'was the lasting picture in Tolkiens mind that we should addopt for our version. Respectfully Findegi