**Spoiler Warning** Rings of Power S1E5 - "Partings"

[Galadriel55]

I couldn't keep a straight face hearing about the mithril plot. What did they say was happening to the Elves? Their light is being extinguished, their souls melting into nothingness, and they know that because a tree went black? Sorry, what? I can see this as part of some mystical fantasy, but in the context of Middle-earth, the whole sounds ridiculous and contrived. (Captain Obvious prediction: this will be the back story for why they need the 3 Elven Rings etc. - but why can't it just be a more metaphorical fading? Not CGI enough?)

On a similar note, I suppose the creation myth behind mithril is just plausible enough (it's a good thing, but a bad thing, you gotta be careful with it etc) - but the myth sounded kinda slapstick. I think the Silmaril makes sense - a metal containing the light of the Silmaril is totally a plausible description - but everything else about it felt like a very half-hearted effort at mythos building. Also, if you are told to recite a Song, you recite the song, not a prose retelling. Was it that hard to come up with one stanza to start it off before Elrond trailed off into the prose summary? It would have been a nice touch.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

But I liked the nod to "not all who wander are lost" in Nori's song - like Bilbo used an old Hobbit adage in his poem. And Nori's description of that Grove they're heading for sounds veeery much like Entwives!

Yes, I enjoyed that line too! Just as I stopped quite paying attention to the song, my ears perked up again. And it's totally plausible that Bilbo did not totally make up that line himself but dug it out of some ancient history book, or, like you say, used some antiquated Hobbit adage!

But where are they heading? I was trying to follow the maps. They passed the Grey Marshes (which I suppose are the Dead Marshes minus the dead - I thought the marshes came after the dead did, but that might just have been a Gollum story, and they did seem to get worse if before you could bring a whole caravan across), then they went more southeast (?) which I thought would mean Ithilien, but then they would clash with the Southlands geography and they were clearly headed Not There. East then? Into Rhovanion depths?

Originally Posted by Oddwen

That is the WORST broom I have ever seen. The shame of Numenor.

I know, right?

On the bright side, Numenor has an anthem, and that made me kinda happy! The lyrics were not half bad either. So far I think the songs are the best part about this episode.

Very few things in the Numenor plotlines have been making sense to me, and I feel like I've just gone back to ignoring them except for the most superficial read and value. Sorry, but I can't take that Galadriel seriously, or Halbrand, and whatever they are weaving with the Numenorian politicians is still kept half in shadow. What I really don't get is what are Elendildaughter (Earien or something?) and Parazonson (Kenem? Kemen?) so upset about; they seem to really not want the ships to sail... but why? Elendil is plausible enough, and I feel that I could enjoy his storyline. Isildur's is decent too, though not particularly canonical in terms of character, and so long as they don't call him "Isil" I am happy to wait and see where they take him.

Southlands plots are making more sense. At least you don't have Theo waiting until it gets dark to escape creatures whose main bane is the sun. Theo is actually looking like a more decent sort of lad in this episode, not just a teenage Nazgul.

By the way, can someone remind me why the reverse-morgul blade is that? As in, why is it reverse? Because it takes something from the wielder (rather than leaving a piece of itself)?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

But where are they heading? I was trying to follow the maps. They passed the Grey Marshes (which I suppose are the Dead Marshes minus the dead - I thought the marshes came after the dead did, but that might just have been a Gollum story, and they did seem to get worse if before you could bring a whole caravan across), then they went more southeast (?) which I thought would mean Ithilien, but then they would clash with the Southlands geography and they were clearly headed Not There. East then? Into Rhovanion depths?

If I read the map right they started out near the eastern side of the Emyn Muil and are heading east, which would place them somewhere north of the Ered Lithui, about the later location of Dagorlad; maybe in the southern parts of the Brown Lands, where the gardens of the Entwives used to be?

[Formendacil]

Well, I was away for the weekend, enjoying my other nerdly hobby and it has taken me till now to watch this episode--desperate or urgent and needing to watch it as soon as possible, it was not, whatever that may say of the show or me. This one really felt like it sloshed between stories--I almost appreciate when there were "only" three or four to cut between. As always, my stream-of-thought thoughts:

• Is it just me, or did the recap make the "lost king of the Southlands" more clear than the previous episodes did--or is this a feint and Halbrand is NOT the heir?

• Wow, that Harfoot accent is thick today.

• Well now: that's a map of lands with some different names on it! Not so dead, these marshes. And I'm not 100% sold on the lyrics, but I do think having Hobbit--sorry, Harfeet--walking songs makes good Tolkien sense.

• Okay, who the expletive are these new characters? Why do they look like evil, Nazi, Elves? Don't we have ENOUGH characters yet?

• Adar has screen presence, which is more than I can say for Bronwyn. She doesn't make sense as an inspiring leader--Evil Barliman has a better presence of leadership.Is he a Nazgûl too?

• I still like Elendil... and really would prefer none of this Isildur at all. But this father-son conflict feels unnecessary (and un-Tolkienian! Where are the Lost Road-esque father-sons of this story?)

• Apparently, I don't remember Caesar's name. You know, the one guy who looks like a Roman more than the rest of them.

• Why would they let Halbrand wear a weapon into the Queen's presence?

• I guess Tar-Palantír still has a little pull...

• Hobbits and mushrooms--I approve.

• Why do the wargs look more like wild boars this time?

• We're definitely supposed to be thinking Gandalf here--I can't decide if I'd prefer he isn't.

• What is the POINT of this scene? It's not action, exactly, since there aren't really stakes. Is it just to show that Galadrield is a badass?

• Ah, I see--somehow this is going to ingratiate Isildur back in.

• Why is Pharazôn a COUSIN? Are they afraid to be as incestuous as Tolkien?

• Pharazôn's case seems... almost mild?

• Tar-Palantír looks more a wizard than the Starman does. Cutting to the Starman actually emphasises this.

• If Nori gets frostbite, I'll be surprised.

• This does boost Starman's Sauronitude a wee bit.

• Gil-galad comes off as very politiciany... and I can't get over him and Celebrimbor being bosom friends. Although there's a Nargothrond-connection one might make, they're kind of at odds in the Second Age.

• I'm not sure I buy this "legend." I mean, it's clearly here, but it doesn't seem necessary: Celebrimbor's besetting sin--the sin that creates the Rings is NOT to recapture the Silmarils. It's a different, albeit related, impulse.

• Okay, fading *IS* a real impulse of the Ring-makers.

• Is the reference to the number of years an indication of a prolonged lifespan--or ignoring it?

• Well, that's an ominous hope, as it will turn out.

• Domestic terrorism actually feels kind of on point for the King's Men... even if they should be commanding both Númenor and her fleet.

• Galadriel, I know you're the prescient one, but... how do you know that things are getting worse? Like, there is pretty much no intel on Middle-earth, and when you left, things looked pretty rosy, your suspicions aside.

• Okay, it's bad enough that Celebrimbor and Gil-galad are tight, but for them to be CLOSER than Gil-galad and Elrond is just... non-canonical!

• Calling Eärendil a mortal man is... actually kind of accurate. Maybe not Celebrimbor's anecdote, though.

• Halbrand isn't very good at sweeping.

• Why does only Finrod get love? Sure, he's the favourite, but Galadriel could throw a few "brothers" in there, right? Or is that not in the Appendices?

• So, the upshot of condensing the Second Age into a single generation is that... the Second Age actually remains a wide, unpainted canvas--not actually filled in at all.

• Evil Bombadil asking on behalf of all of us!

• Adar having only one glove is prominent there--but he can't be Maedhros: the arm is wrong!

• Well, Theo, maybe you can be saved after all... maybe.

• Whoa, that's some Nazgûlish music!

• "An entire age" is a very imprecise measurement of time here, Arondir. There's way too much memory and nearness of the First Age among Men in their Dark Age, but it's also supposed to be forever.

• By spring? The fading should not be so swift! Arbitrary, mcguffiny, timeline!

• Elrond, your cloak is a bit too long to be practical in a forest--I would think an Elf would notice such things.

• Durin and Elrond have chemistry, but this dialogue...

• Gil-galad the creeper.

• Very "epic old movie" feel to "Númenor goes to war"--am I thinking Ben Hur or Cleopatra or the Ten Commandments.

• Elendil's helm is what Aragorn should be crowned with in RotK.

• "Galadriel comes aboard" is presented way more... epicly than her in-story role should merit, right? That sort of drama should be for Míriel or Elendil--someone taking command of the ship. She's still a foreign national.

• Amazon's desire, like all streaming services, to skip the credits annoys me.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

• Apparently, I don't remember Caesar's name. You know, the one guy who looks like a Roman more than the rest of them.

Are you thinking of Pharazon's son? He looks pretty Roman. Can't ever remember his name either.

Originally Posted by Form

• Why do the wargs look more like wild boars this time?

Lol, I forgot about that scene. My first thought was sabretooth possums. I suppose you could contrive an explanation for proto-lupine creatures being the evolutionary ancestors (or perhaps cousins) to the modern Canis lupus. But then you really wonder what monstrosities must have lived even earlier in time on Tol-in-Gaurhoth and in Angband. The "eastern cousins" is the easier contrived explanation, because if the vastness of Middle-earth can be inhabited by Meeple, it could be inhabited by sabertooth possums.

Originally Posted by Form

• Why is Pharazôn a COUSIN? Are they afraid to be as incestuous as Tolkien?

Is he not though? Cousin to Miriel? I thought that part was canonical. And IIRC in the books he only marries Miriel on her father's death - which hasn't happened yet in show.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

You've all mentioned the points I was thinking while watching, except one only briefly - the wandering song! That alone was worth watching the confused and confusing rest. I love Tolkien's walking songs and have compared different melodies considering their beauty as well as their usefulness for the purpose.

This one has a wonderful melody, and though it is sung pensively, it could be sung while walking. I love the way it begins with the rustic voice we would expect, and then becomes more polished as it goes on - would you have expected the actress to have such a lovely voice?! I also love the way it is set musically - starting off without accompaniment, then very subtly adding instruments bit by bit. Then the final note is completely a capella and fades into silence.

The lyrics are well written, imo - bits of foreshadowing in the "not all who wander are lost" (the word play with wonder/wander reminds me af the Christmas carol "I wonder as I wander), some contents to speculate on (trees of stone, tower, black sand) - what did you notice about it?

I defy anyone to listen to it and not be moved!

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Is he not though? Cousin to Miriel? I thought that part was canonical. And IIRC in the books he only marries Miriel on her father's death - which hasn't happened yet in show.

You are correct--I think I've muddled my genealogy. The problem, I think, is that "Pharazôn" here feels like more like his father, Gimilkhâd--and that fact that he has a son (wozzizname), who seems a better fit for the Pharazôn role, is confusing me.

[Boromir88]

Hi Gil Galad, Rune, and Esty. Nice to read your posts here.

I watched Episode 5 last Friday, but haven't been feeling well this week and memory of it is quite foggy. I'll probably rewatch the Episode tomorrow, before the new one to share more opinions.

I've read from quite a few people about being put off by the Elves needing mithril to survive, as if their immortality depended upon mithril. Like I said, my memory is a bit foggy, but that's not the impression I had. I thought Gil Galad and Celebrimbor were talking about how Middle-earth was decaying and the Elves would "fade" like Middle-earth was fading without the mithril. I didn't take it as the Elves would die without mithril. It seems to definitely be going a "mithril is used in the forging of the Rings of Power" theory. It has been one of the head-scratching "I'm not sure this is going to work for me" moments in the series. But I'm trying to stick to a belief that any change to the lore can work, if the adaptors make it work, by being consistent within their own story.

Thankfully, it appears my fears about Elrond were unfounded. I really liked him in this episode and his portrayal. It was nice to get his forceful opinion about making and breaking oaths. It reminded me of the part in the book in Rivendell when Gimli says an oath can "strengthen" a wary heart (paraphrasing here) and Elrond says "or break it." Elrond knows full well the consequences of oath-breaking and that I think came across in the TV series. I also chuckled with Durin's table stealing ploy.

The Numenorean song and the Harfoot walking song were unquestionably the highlights of the episode. The music and songs feel like they fit in Middle-earth. I just wish the same could be said about the dialogue.

My thoughts are a bit jumbled, because I'm still under the weather and taking cold medicine. I have a feeling when I read this later, it's going to be difficult to follow whatever points I've tried to make.

[Tar Elenion]

*Elrond: But I came for mithril.
*Durin: Why?
*Elrond: Without it, my kind must either abandon these shores by spring, or perish.
*Durin: Perish? Perish how?
*Elrond: Our immortal souls will dwindle into nothing, slowly diminishing, until we are but shadows, swept away by the tides of time. Forever.