Lord of the Rings TV series gets multi-season order at Amazon

[mhagain]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

I think anyone who goes into this new show thinking it isn't going to take a modern Hollywood approach to diversity and incorporate it into Middle-earth is kidding themselves. And I say that as a dreaded "progressive" who doesn't have a problem with that approach in principle. Execution is a different matter, obviously.

This, basically. There's absolutely nothing wrong with diversity, it's all in how it's done. To take two current or recent examples: Star Trek Discovery and The Expanse. Both present diversity as a theme, but could they be any more different in the execution?

Maybe the problem is with adding diversity where there was previously none? Why not just say that?

There are a lot of people in this thread who seem to have imagined up a worst case scenario of how this show could go, then decided that they're going to hate it with the burning fire of a billion suns based on not much more than their own imaginings. I just don't get that.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by mhagain

There are a lot of people in this thread who seem to have imagined up a worst case scenario of how this show could go, then decided that they're going to hate it with the burning fire of a billion suns based on not much more than their own imaginings. I just don't get that.

It's the trick of setting the bar so low that it's hard to fail so miserably. Expect the best, and you will suffer disappointment. Expect the worst, and you may be spared. It's not going to be "good" by definition, the way I and a number of others here would define a good Tolkien adaptation. But I myself am taking the more cheerful route of gleefully making fun of the expected ridiculousness rather than letting it gall my spleen. You see, it's hard to out-pessimism reality, but if you succeed in out-pessimisming movie expectations, you might actually enjoy it for whatever good elements - or at least entertainment value - it will have. And if it still sucks even after you've done all that - well, it good and truly sucks, if it failed even the lowest bar you could imagine.

I recommend it to all - care less and laugh at it more. Seriously, it's already given me quite a bit of entertainment factor. It's like The Room / The Disaster Artist - perhaps it was not intended to function as a comedy, but if nothing else, it can at least be that in the expectations stage.


But if you wanna talk about more positive expectations - what are yours? What would you like to see, within the scarce info we have, that would make a story you'd enjoy?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

It's the trick of setting the bar so low that it's hard to fail so miserably. Expect the best, and you will suffer disappointment. Expect the worst, and you may be spared.

But it's kind of grim for those of us who would actually like it to be good, that every time we come in here with a new tidbit of news the responses are all "this just proves that it's going to be terrible" when it doesn't do anything of the sort.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

But if you wanna talk about more positive expectations - what are yours? What would you like to see, within the scarce info we have, that would make a story you'd enjoy?

Thanks, I will!

• I want to see Numenor. It won't be my Numenor - that's currently veering towards the Egyptian-Mesoamerican style - but it will be Numenor. The visuals from the movies, plus the one image we have from this series, tell me that they're excellent at evoking Tolkien's landscapes.
• I want to see hints and glimpses of the First Age. Not lots - and despite the contention that the Estate has sold out entirely to Amazon, I don't believe that they would allow a great deal of First Age material - but glimpses like Tolkien scattered through LotR. Give me the Lay of Leithian as background in a party, and paintings of the Fall of Ancalagon.
• I want to see Elves (Sam says hi ^_^). More than that, I want to see Elvish civilisation. We've not seen that - Imladris, Lorien, and Mirkwood were fading enclaves. I want Lindon and Ost-in-Edhil and, ideally, glimpses of Eressea and Tirion. (Gondolin and Nargothrond is probably pushing it, but ye Valar! Give me a flash of them in the prologue!)
• As for the story... I want Tar-Miriel to get the respect she deserves. I know, I know - women, in Tolkien?! But it's inconceivable to me that the Last Queen of Numenor - the only person who attempted to intervene with the One to save the island, even if (as an earlier tale of Earendil ran) she came too late - wouldn't be involved in the Resistance.
• I want to see the fall of Pharazon - or further fall. I want to see him as an example of how there is always a deeper depth to sink to. He starts out pretty bad, as a racist rapist; he winds up as a death-cultist waging war against heaven. I want to see that decline take place not all at once, but in realistic slow time. I want to see Annatar corrupting Numenor (and Celebrimbor, if we get that story) by tiny, reasonable steps.
• I want them to draw on all the stories of Numenor. Not merging Silmarien, Aldarion and Isildur into a single nightmare timeframe, but using elements from the earlier stories. A series has room for more side characters than a movie, so draw on The Mariner's Wife to give us the Lord of Romenna's fights with his lady wife. Take Elendil and his son's discussions in The Lost Road and use them to give us a Faithful/King's Men debate that's more than just "you're evil" vs "you're too nice".
• And I want them to remember that, in any story that didn't include Sauron, Numenor would be the villain. The Numenoreans are racist, slave-taking invaders, and even the good ones are built on that foundation (just ask the Dunlendings!). I fully expect that some of our primary cast will be naive King's Men who discover what's really going on and join the Faithful over it; but I hope there will also be those who find out and... don't change, because actually, people can justify almost anything to themselves. "Take up the Edain's burden / The best ye breed forth send! / Go raise your sons as sailors / To bind the Lesser Men."

None of this is particularly implausible (the most unlikely is them using The Mariner's Wife). None of it makes the outcome a definite success. But it would provide the foundation for a good-quality adaptation of Tolkien's world, built on the wonder that is Middle-earth and giving it something to say about the sometimes vile way humans treat each other - and how we can do better.

What I don't want to see is a straightforward adaptation of the Tale of Superhero Isildur and Cartoonishly Evil Sauron-n-Pharazon, And How Good Inevitably Triumphed (Shame About That Ring). Even The Hobbit has more moral depth than that.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Hui

I want them to draw on all the stories of Numenor. Not merging Silmarien, Aldarion and Isildur into a single nightmare timeframe, but using elements from the earlier stories.*

I can totally get behind that. And this is something GOT managed to do quite well - they integrate snippets of history into the story. So if we can learn about Aegon the this and Maegor the that, I think we can learn about Aldarion and Erendis and Silmarien. And a few First Age tales - but I don't think I want more than a brief flash of the FA.

Originally Posted by Hui

I want to see the fall of Pharazon - or*further*fall. I want to see him as an example of how there is*always*a deeper depth to sink to. He starts out pretty bad, as a racist rapist; he winds up as a death-cultist waging war against heaven. I want to see that decline take place not all at once, but in realistic slow time. I want to see Annatar corrupting Numenor (and Celebrimbor, if we get that story) by tiny, reasonable steps.

And this too. It would be nice if this happens. But - and I stick by my previous post - I ain't gonna count on them getting it right. I prefer pleasant surprises to disappointments, especially in the movie industry.

[Boromir88]

I'm excited to get some new blood in a Tolkien adaptation. I wish Del Toro would have been able to stick around for The Hobbit. And I never had any major gripes with the casting in either trilogy, but I think it's good we're getting a different cast and crew for this series.

I believe I read Howard Shore is doing the score again. I was slightly disappointed in The Hobbit score, because I think he recycled a few themes, but the Misty Mountains theme (and the song in Bag End I enjoyed). Not to mention the LOTR score was top shelf. Rohan theme and Khazad-dum theme give me chills every time.

[Michael Murry]

I forgot how to do links, so I'll just post the Internet Address of a web site named "Looper" where an article entitled "Amazon's Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power Character Posters Are Extremely Revealing" appeared. The article appears with the date February 3, 2022.

https://www.looper.com/756872/amazon...&utm_content=3

I have no idea what to say about this but would find the opinions of others here of interest.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

You'd say I'm probably too intrigued that we may hopefully get a character, Sauron, in this series. I mean making the actual character, depicting his story and his "fall," not just a flaming eyeball.

I think that is absolutely inescapable. How could they do it without him? (Don't answer that.)

Originally Posted by Michael Murry

I forgot how to do links, so I'll just post the Internet Address of a web site named "Looper" where an article entitled "Amazon's Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power Character Posters Are Extremely Revealing" appeared. The article appears with the date February 3, 2022.

https://www.looper.com/756872/amazon...&utm_content=3

I have no idea what to say about this but would find the opinions of others here of interest.

I'm glad it didn't turn out to be what I was afraid it would be when I read that headline.

[mhagain]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

But if you wanna talk about more positive expectations - what are yours? What would you like to see, within the scarce info we have, that would make a story you'd enjoy?

I'll bite - here's a top three.


I want to see the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. There are so many cinematic scenes in that, from the arrival of Turgon, to the charge of Gwindor, to the last stand of Húrin, it almost demands to be visually depicted. It needn't be a full episode, give me it as prologue material or something, but I so badly want to see that.


I want to see more about the Nazgul. If they can construct a good backstory that works well, and show us something about those Kings and Sorcerers before they became Ringwraiths, the people they were, and the reasons why they succumbed to temptation. Get this right and it could be like the fall of Darth Vader times nine, without the angst and whining.


I want to see something I haven't seen before in a depiction of Middle-earth. We've had heroism, we've had struggle, we've had hope, we've had sadness, we've had the passing of an older age; we've already had these themes. I want to see something that evokes the huge titanic struggles, the Powers clashing, something that will make me **** myself.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by mhagain

I want to see more about the Nazgul. If they can construct a good backstory that works well, and show us something about those Kings and Sorcerers before they became Ringwraiths, the people they were, and the reasons why they succumbed to temptation. Get this right and it could be like the fall of Darth Vader times nine, without the angst and whining.

Okay, I would love this. Previous attempts to do anything with the Nazgul have been... uh... pretty dang bad, and I will be clawing at the walls if any of them turn out to be a) dead or b) Isildur. But if they can do it well, it would be incredible.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Hey hey, actual news! The first trailer is coming next Sunday! And TORn are doing a watch party.

Honestly I would not have expected to find myself visiting TORn for movie-related news again. What a world.

hS

[Thinlómien]

Has anyone else seen in the new Vanity Fair article with lots of pictures and details about the main characters and storylines? https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...ies-first-look

I have to say I'm not super impressed (sounds like high budget fan fiction, some of the costumes are terrible... is that one dude wearing a t-shirt??). I'll comment more a little later after I've chewed this and read the recent discussion on this thread.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Has anyone else seen in the new Vanity Fair article with lots of pictures and details about the main characters and storylines? https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...ies-first-look

I have to say I'm not super impressed (sounds like high budget fan fiction, some of the costumes are terrible... is that one dude wearing a t-shirt??). I'll comment more a little later after I've chewed this and read the recent discussion on this thread.

Just had time to look at the first few paragraphs... Life of Gal is not what I wanna watch. I expect nothing other than fan fiction, but - there's fanfiction, and there's fanfiction.