![]() |
![]() |
Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
|
![]() |
#1 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
Suspect Galadriel, just different actress.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Shame they couldn't have got Cate Blanchett, in that case.
I'm not a huge fan of her portrayal, but she's at least a fine actor.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Laconic Loreman
|
Now that it appears the plot will be focused on the Rings of Power, I think Eregion will be a likely important location. This has piqued my interests in the series a bit, because I think the relationship between Celebrimbor and Sauron is a fascinating story to delve into.
There's not many details in Unfinished Tales: "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn" so I can imagine it's a story that appeals to writers who like having "creative license." But even so, it's a fascinating story in my opinion on Celebrimbor's friendship with "Annatar." Was Sauron at any point after serving Melkor sincere in repentance and his friendship with Celebrimbor? Or did he use Celebrimbor's shared ambitions and connection to play him a fool? ![]()
__________________
Fenris Penguin
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I wonder if this is indeed true.
I think I've been approaching the problem with this project from the wrong angle. My worries have been mainly that the desire for GoT style success to generate huge profits would override any fidelity to the spirit of the source material. However, there is a stronger force in play. I have seen very many examples in recent years of things I enjoyed being remade and "updated" to reflect so-called modern and "progressive" ideas. A streaming show on another network is doing its level best to destroy everything I admire about a great Star Trek character. Is it remotely possible that Middle-earth as depicted in the new show will be recognizable as the beloved world in Tolkien's books? Or even that place Peter Jackson sees in his mind? If Isildur is now going to have a have a sister, the broken-down examples I pointed at above dictate that he will be ground down and shown to be weak, so she can be that much more superior in every way. Can the works of a man like Tolkien be allowed expression in their old form? Aren't they too full of male characters who don't deserve the spotlight? Don't so-called progressive messages impose themselves on every facet of entertainment today? Why should this be any different? The pressure on the producers of this show must be immense. Yes, they want to make money, but they must do it the right way, by appealing to the right people. I don't think old-school fans whose first experience was to the books decades ago are in that group. Yes, Hollywood. You've torn down Luke Skywalker in favor of a Mary Sue who didn't earn anything she got. You made Jean-Luc Picard a weak old man, afraid to take decisive action and forever apologizing for being himself. I really don't even care about Dr Who, but from what I've heard, the BBC has really taken a sledgehammer to everything old fans liked about it. Again, what hope is there that Amazon won't go the same way with Tolkien? I think I'm now going to stop paying attention to anything having to do with this rot. That way lies only sadness.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | ||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,971
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Or rather, no. Isildur is three characters. 1/ The one who appears in LotR. He kills Sauron with his father's sword, takes the Ring, refuses to destroy it, and ultimately gets shot in the back while trying to sneak away while his soldiers and sons die. By this point, strong or weak, Isildur is a crown prince (and indeed High King), who must have come a long way from his life in Numenor decades before. 2/ The Silmarillion version, who gets nearly a whole paragraph(!) to himself. He sneaks into Armenelos and retrieves a fruit of the White Tree, nearly dying in the process. This is the strong version, though he doesn't "earn anything []he got". 3/ The version from the drafts, specifically The Lost Road. This one isn't even called Isildur - he's Herendil, son of Elendil, but he has the same narrative position. He's weak! He's practically a Sauron loyalist! "Is there a shadow? I have not seen it. But I have heard others speak of it; and they say it is the shadow of Death. But Sauron did not bring that; he promiseth that he will save us from it." In the notes associated with the text, he either winds up arrested by Sauron - or betraying his father to him. If you want Isildur to be a character, not simply an archetype (good or bad), the only remotely Tolkienian way to do it is to combine these stories. He starts out led astray by Sauron and Pharazon - he finds his way to being the hero who rescues the fruit of Nimloth - and at the end he succumbs to the lure of Sauron's own weapon and power. He is weak - and then, through character growth, he becomes strong. As to your comments about Tolkien being a man, whose male characters should be permitted to male in a manly fashion unmolested by women, well, a) ![]() Quote:
Gosh. I wonder where that idea came from. hS (PS: Curiously, there are actually two women of "Herendil's" age mentioned in The Lost Road: Almariel, "whose hair is of shining gold, and she is a maiden, and of my own age", who seems to be presented as his friend; and Firiel, "a maiden of [Elendil's] household, daughter of Orontor". Isildur's wife is mentioned, though not named, twice in the Silmarillion, both times after the escape from Numenor. His mother is not mentioned at all. And, interestingly, there is a sister in the Andunie family who plays a significant role: Lindórië, sister of the Lord of Andunie and mother of Inzilbeth. She taught her daughter the ways of the Faithful, and she passed them on to her own son, Tar-Palantir, King of Numenor. Numenorean women are a force to be reckoned with.)
__________________
Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
I think anyone who goes into this new show thinking it isn't going to take a modern Hollywood approach to diversity and incorporate it into Middle-earth is kidding themselves. And I say that as a dreaded "progressive" who doesn't have a problem with that approach in principle. Execution is a different matter, obviously. As with most modern sequels/adaptations/re-imaginings etc. I strongly suspect what will really be the problem with the Amazon show will be that it gets the tone wrong, and not because of its gender politics.
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. Last edited by Zigûr; 01-27-2022 at 06:58 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The best seat in the Golden Perch
Posts: 219
![]() |
Quote:
Maybe the problem is with adding diversity where there was previously none? Why not just say that? There are a lot of people in this thread who seem to have imagined up a worst case scenario of how this show could go, then decided that they're going to hate it with the burning fire of a billion suns based on not much more than their own imaginings. I just don't get that.
__________________
Then one appeared among us, in our own form visible, but greater and more beautiful; and he said that he had come out of pity. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,512
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
![]() I recommend it to all - care less and laugh at it more. Seriously, it's already given me quite a bit of entertainment factor. It's like The Room / The Disaster Artist - perhaps it was not intended to function as a comedy, but if nothing else, it can at least be that in the expectations stage. But if you wanna talk about more positive expectations - what are yours? What would you like to see, within the scarce info we have, that would make a story you'd enjoy?
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]()
Post Melkor, possibly, but by the time he went to Eregion I think it is clear that ship had long since sailed.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |
Laconic Loreman
|
Quote:
![]()
__________________
Fenris Penguin
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|
![]() |