TIG CXVII: GAME Thread:

[Thinlómien]

Not particularly suspicious of so far
Boro, Greenie, Legate - all seem like their usual selves and have participated without doing anything shady that would have caught my attention (yet), would not vote for them based on what I've seen so far

Flip flop
Kath - my gut is saying innocent, my reason is telling me to keep an eye on her
Morsul - he is rather defensive, but his last post looks better to me. I'm hesitant to suspect him because it seems so knee-jerk

Vaguely suspicious so far
Form - for hiding behind Day1s being futile
Hui - mostly a gut-feeling, something about him seems off
Lottie - for the Morsul tunnel vision after criticising Morsul's tunnel vision
Pitch - his continued "Wolfate is pretending not to remember Wolfesoron's last wolf game" argument just seems odd and convoluted to me, otherwise hard to say

Needs to post more (substance)
Form (yes he's in two places, he deserves it for triggering me about Day1s )
Sally
Soriman


edit: xed with Form, and feeling much better about him. Maybe because he sounds a little apologetic

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

edit: xed with Form, and feeling much better about him. Maybe because he sounds a little apologetic

Well, that's not what I'd have expected at all!

Normally, my crotchety and irritated demeanour as I push the Sisyphusian rock of Day 1-antipthay is to be suspected of being a Wolf for it.

Since Lommy always suspects me, this must mean she's not herself--i.e. a Wolf.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Let me get some Ghost Practice just a Tolkien quotes right?

“ Surely you don't disbelieve the prophecies because you helped bring them about?”

Morsul, if you're innocent please don't be so fatalistic. I think at least half of the people discussing you think you're innocent, and most of the rest are flip-flopping from moment to moment. You haven't actually been done at this point. Who do you suspect, and why?

Lommy doesn't seem to be making me uneasy in their last couple of posts, so that's good.

Form... I don't know. Are you actually taking a stance that it's impossible to read anything off anyone on Day One, despite all the suspicion flying around? Because that seems pretty tenuous for an innocent.

Greenie is back, and what earlier looked like buddying-up now comes over as fairly considering each person's points.

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Morsul, if you're innocent please don't be so fatalistic. I think at least half of the people discussing you think you're innocent, and most of the rest are flip-flopping from moment to moment. You haven't actually been done at this point. Who do you suspect, and why?

Ah it was just some dark gallows humor.

As for most suspicious to be perfectly unhelpful everyone is giving off fumbling in the dark vibes and I don’t see any discernible patterns that I usually jump on even if a bit backwards and in a “makes sense in my head and no one else’s” arguably Boro’s rather strong defense of me is counter intuitively a small flag because unless he’s a wolf he wouldn’t be sure I’m an innocent.

Then there’s some chatter about strategies and such that certainly have merit but are based on certain knowledge of the players.

You and Boro top my list. kath feels like it was an easy vote and easy to wiggle out of but it really could be day 1.

This is why people don’t vote day 1.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Form... I don't know. Are you actually taking a stance that it's impossible to read anything off anyone on Day One, despite all the suspicion flying around? Because that seems pretty tenuous for an innocent.

With the exception of the Wolves, Day 1 is Wild Mass Guessing and distinguishing the two--especially when you're playing with people you've played WW with before (possibly many, many times before) is More Wild Mass Guessing until you have Facts: which, unfortunately, is a body count.

That doesn't mean that someone can't luck into a correct answer, but WW is an ever-escalating game of "normally I zig, so I need to zag" and "XXXX seems suspicious, but they always seem suspicious, but it's suspicious that I usually end up not thinking they're suspicious, and it's suspicious that they're aren't suspicious, and even more suspicious that they're a little bit suspicious rather than exact enough suspicious."

Throw in a heavy dose of "I've never played with YYY before, so I have no idea" and you have Day 1.

Although there was a time once--maybe around when the Moon first rose in the West--when I didn't feel thusly about Days 1, that was a long, long time ago.

[Thinlómien]

Ugh, I should go to sleep too. I have read all the recent posts but I feel like I'm not really computing them.

I'm still wondering what is more stupid, voting Huinesoron just based on gut-feeling, or ignoring my gut-feeling and giving him a free pass which is exactly what I did last time when he was a wolf.

I could also vote Pitch, but that feels a bit like making a mountain out of molehill when it comes to his weird Hui/Legate argument. Then again I guess Day1 is a molehill Day.

I'd also like to see Lottie say something about something else than Morsul because that would help in determining whether my suspicion of her is founded or not. (Is "founded" a word? Or just "unfounded"?? Help, I can't English at this hour.)

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

++ Pitchwife

I'm not confident about this one, but it's 2 hours past bedtime for me and I can't stick around any longer. Basically, Pitch suddenly turning to suspect Lommy right after she started suspecting him, while carefully not mentioning any connection between the two, is arguably the dodgiest thing I've seen toDay. Lommy's interpretation of his Hui/Legate speculation as potential stumbling wolf-logic doesn't make him look better, either. It's flimsy, but less so than anything else I've got.

This makes me feel much better about Greenie - I'd picked up a hem-haw-y vibe from her earlier in the Day, but I appreciate her suspicion of Pitch (I don't agree with it, but I appreciate where she's coming from) and the fact that she stuck to it and voted that way before seeing anyone react to the suspicion negates the vibe I was getting earlier.

I actually agree with Pitch that something about Lommy's suspicion of Huin feels a little forced to me. I've focused more on Morsul than on Huin, but overall, Huin hasn't struck me as being particularly suspicious, and he's coming across like I remember him from previous games. I would not want to vote him toDay. So, I don't want to vote for Huin, Greenie, or Pitch, all three of whom are people who've drawn votes and attention so far toDay. I might be willing to vote Morsul, but frankly, I think it's just as likely he's innocent as a wolf, so I don't love that option, either. Hopefully something changes before DL...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, since before I did not have data on Form, apparently now he can get an entire post of his own...

Originally Posted by Formendacil

At the risk of posting again--this isn't failure to participate. I inevitably (LIKE THIS VERY POST) end up participating, but since the participation is all about how the participation doesn't register until after the day has produced results, I get unfairly dinged for saying things by people complaining that I DON'T say things, when other people actually lurk through the entire Day 1 (maybe not even voting). And, since I think it's bad to deliberately lurk--I'm caught between a rock and a hard place here, I know--I end up responding to the Day 1-talk provocation.

Well the avoidance sounds just like a) a bad strategy, b) irresponsible towards the village. And c), anyway - even bantery participation eventually reveals something. Because inevitably you end up talking about something actually relevant for the game, even if only briefly. So. But now since you spoke, you participated, so, problem solved.

Otherwise I think the lurking is a valid point (and some have mentioned it here before, too), but exactly - all that is cured only by everyone posting more. That being said,

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Well, here were are again, then. Since it's human nature to always be fighting the last war (or last week's headlines), I suppose I am deeply suspicious of the lurkers and only mildly concerned about anyone who's posting. Perhaps I should take that mentality and say that I'll vote for whomever the most silent Day 1 person is.

Stating whom you vote and why (and doing it) is essentially the minimum one would ask. Not that I wouldn't think there may be better reasoning based on content rather than the absence of, but I actually think, of all things, voting for purposefully slipping under the radar is a sound basis for voting. Of course also a way to make a throwaway vote, but any vote can be throwaway - it only depends on the circumstances.

Anyway, generally this gives me a fairly good vibe about Form all in all.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy, Morsul and Form

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I may, however, want to revisit the subject with a fresher brain toMorrow if I'm still here.

I realise Greenie is gone, but am I missing some reason they'd think they might not be here? I was feeling pretty good about them, and I only remember one other person commenting on them at all. I know WW can shift rapidly, but it sounds like a bit of a guilty conscience.

Then there's their vote, which is because "Pitch suddenly turning to suspect Lommy right after she started suspecting him" and not mentioning it is dodgy. Except there's been a whole conversation about how natural that exact reaction is.

Couple that with:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Greenie - actually of all people, the way she posted seems to me the most suspicious. I am still not convinced that she did not have an evil intent in signal-boosting Hui's potential suspicion-wagon. There is also something slippery in general about the way she responds, as opposed to sharper and more focused that I'd expect.

And I'm starting to think I was right on my first (er... last-but-one, at any rate) feeling.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Ah it was just some dark gallows humor.

Fine, but:

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Boro’s rather strong defense of me is counter intuitively a small flag because unless he’s a wolf he wouldn’t be sure I’m an innocent.

All I can find for 'rather strong defence' is this:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I don't know why that would be considered strange? I mean isn't it a natural tendency to focus on the person accusing and asking you direct questions?

Which is nothing of the sort, and pushes me yet again over to the "wolf" interpretation of you.

Originally Posted by Formendacil

That doesn't mean that someone can't luck into a correct answer, but WW is an ever-escalating game of "normally I zig, so I need to zag" and "XXXX seems suspicious, but they always seem suspicious, but it's suspicious that I usually end up not thinking they're suspicious, and it's suspicious that they're aren't suspicious, and even more suspicious that they're a little bit suspicious rather than exact enough suspicious."

I mean... to an extent, but I don't think it's as hopeless as you're making out. But at least you're consistent in your viewpoint - I think (or Wild Guess) that's a good thing.

I see Morsul has now voted me - well, they said they were going to! I think the claim that my response way back was "you saying I didn’t use the right words" is deeply flawed - it wasn't about precise wording, it was about meaning! My 'example answers' were all very different in meaning from the one Morsul actually gave.

So it's between Morsul and Greenie for me at this point.

(Crossed to Lommy's vote.)

hS

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Form... I don't know. Are you actually taking a stance that it's impossible to read anything off anyone on Day One, despite all the suspicion flying around? Because that seems pretty tenuous for an innocent.

I think Form's stance is usually it's impossible to make anything of Day 1, meaning on toDay. It's only useful when we get to Day 2 after we know the roles of the lynch and the pack's night kill (or failure to kill).

I agree with him, that as much as he grumbles about it, he is always willing to engage in whatever is going on. I would say to him it's more "try to pick out the quiet and uncontroversial" people on Day 1s.

As there are likely to be a, or multiple loud/controversial wolves in a pack, they always get tripped up from their blabbing mouths or grab the attention of the seer.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

As for most suspicious to be perfectly unhelpful everyone is giving off fumbling in the dark vibes and I don’t see any discernible patterns that I usually jump on even if a bit backwards and in a “makes sense in my head and no one else’s” arguably Boro’s rather strong defense of me is counter intuitively a small flag because unless he’s a wolf he wouldn’t be sure I’m an innocent.

Well, I wouldn't take my posts and question to Lottie as a strong defense of you, ergo I know your role at all. I was just wondering why it's considered strange when someone (you) were getting direct suspicions from someone else (Huey), that you would then focus on and respond to Huey.

I think I got a good read on Lommy and can see the genuine flip-flop Lomminess and frustrated with Form's Day 1 attitude.

I'm still slightly concerned about Greenie. She seems careful still not to commite towards anything.

I'm more concerned with Lottie. She's usually more aggressive and in your face. I'm reading her response to my question in a "alright, let me just back away a bit from Morsul/Huey so I don't get implicated early."

Sure, but to the exclusion of all else? And with somewhat dramatic shifts in opinion (that were strongly stated for being based on not much to begin with? Like I said, it could be an ordoMorsul with tunnel vision, or it could be a wolfMorsul trying to invent suspicions. The one scenario I don’t think is likely is both of them being wolves - and the interactions from Morsul to Huin look more targeted than the other way around, so I’m more able to draw conclusions about Morsul then I am about Huin, who has been very active on a number of fronts so far.

Thoughts? Someone argue and be my contrarian.

Neutral on Form, Pitch, Kath and Legate so far. Hopefully since I'll be around from now until the DL I will have more conclusions when I read their recent posts more than just scanning them.

Edit: Ooof x'ed with a lot

[A Little Green]

++ Pitchwife

I'm not confident about this one, but it's 2 hours past bedtime for me and I can't stick around any longer. Basically, Pitch suddenly turning to suspect Lommy right after she started suspecting him, while carefully not mentioning any connection between the two, is arguably the dodgiest thing I've seen toDay. Lommy's interpretation of his Hui/Legate speculation as potential stumbling wolf-logic doesn't make him look better, either. It's flimsy, but less so than anything else I've got.

I'm not comfortable voting for Morsul because he does act more like a frustrated ordo at the moment, and if indeed innocent, would make an entirely too convenient Day 1 bandwagon. I may, however, want to revisit the subject with a fresher brain toMorrow if I'm still here.

One last thing - I had a quick scroll through the thread, and noticed this:

Originally Posted by Soriman

Pitch has made some strange arguments against Huin but I don't believe anyone should read into this.

Nothing suspicious about this in itself, but if Pitch does turn out to be a wolf, I'd take another look at Soriman.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Pitch - his continued "Wolfate is pretending not to remember Wolfesoron's last wolf game" argument just seems odd and convoluted to me, otherwise hard to say

I give you "odd and convoluted", but you realise it's only "continued" because you and Greenie asked me for clarification and I replied, right? (I'd still like to hear if Legate has anything to say about the matter.)

Continuing speculation about the Hui/Morsul altercation (doesn't that sound like an episode title from The Big Band Theory?), I like Boro's reply to Lottie in #39. Actually make that 'I really like Boro so far, period'. And I'd laugh my head off if we had a pack of any three of Hui, Lommy, Lottie and Kath, although I suspect it's not quite as easy - there's probably a wolf steering meticulously clear of the whole affair. Also I'm ironically flip-flopping about Lommy, her last couple of posts sound more innocentish than before. So, could it be Lottie, Kath and X?