Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[Thinlómien]

Are you guys really buying Sally's claim?

I absolutely don't. It's a very convenient wolf ploy, given that it will either 1) drag out the real hunter so the wolves don't need to worry about targeting them by accident, 2) go uncontested because I think an actual hunter would consider twice before revealing because it effectively makes their gift useless.

If Sally was the real hunter and thought she's gonna get lynched, wouldn't she let us do it and gun for whoever she thinks is the most suspicious, then let us analyse the bandwagon against known innocent her the Day after? We're not yet at a point where we can't afford lynching an innocent. I'm aware it's a question of playing style and how many risks you want to take, but if I was in Sally's position and the hunter I would never ever reveal.

Yeah, not buying it.


ezit: xed with everyone on this page

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Are you guys really buying Sally's claim?

I absolutely don't. It's a very convenient wolf ploy, given that it will either 1) drag out the real hunter so the wolves don't need to worry about targeting them by accident, 2) go uncontested because I think an actual hunter would consider twice before revealing because it effectively makes their gift useless.

If Sally was the real hunter and thought she's gonna get lynched, wouldn't she let us do it and gun for whoever she thinks is the most suspicious, then let us analyse the bandwagon against known innocent her the Day after? We're not yet at a point where we can't afford lynching an innocent. I'm aware it's a question of playing style and how many risks you want to take, but if I was in Sally's position and the hunter I would never ever reveal.

Yeah, not buying it.

Oh, did she finally claim it? I know she was softing it earlier. Didn't buy it then, don't buy it now. (Sorry, Sally, but this is way too shades-of-G55 for me.)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Oh, did she finally claim it? I know she was softing it earlier. Didn't buy it then, don't buy it now. (Sorry, Sally, but this is way too shades-of-G55 for me.)

Cobbler child stole my actual role thunder.

[Boromir88]

Great. Just what I need.

At least there's more time to look at this one than the 45 seconds G55 gave.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Am I right to say that the suspicions directed towards Inzil mainly has to do with vote placement, and his role in the whole “don’t mention the ranger’ saga?

And Sally are suspected for not acting like innocent Sally + vote placement, and i guess we can add claiming to be giftet to the list (after first heavily implying it).

I haven't got time to go through all posts again, so please let me know if I missed any of the main points.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Am I right to say that the suspicions directed towards Inzil mainly has to do with vote placement, and his role in the whole “don’t mention the ranger’ saga?

And Sally are suspected for not acting like innocent Sally + vote placement, and i guess we can add claiming to be giftet to the list (after first heavily implying it).

I haven't got time to go through all posts again, so please let me know if I missed any of the main points.

As far as I am concerned and as far as I can tell, I think these were the main points.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Lottie

And I really don't like that Sally didn't tell us who her pick would be. If you ARE the Hunter, give us all the information so we can make an informed decision!

Yes, this. She voted Lottie, but that doesn't necessarily equal hunter pick.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I mean, even if Sally is indeed the hunter, don't we want to give her a shot?

Think about it. If I'm right and she's bluffing, we win.

If I'm wrong and she's indeed the hunter, well, then I would trust her to have a faily high chance to take a wolf with her, which is also a pretty good outcome.

(Yeah, I know in the worst case we could lose two innocents but hey, that's the game. If Sally is the hunter let her do her job. I trust her to pick wisely.)


edit: xed with everyone

I don't like high-stake games.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I don't believe Sally, but equally - we shouldn't lynch her. If she's real, we force the wolves to kill her; if she's fake, the real Hunter hunts her. Easy enough.

I said the exact same about Kit yesterday.

I won't be voting Sally today.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Am I right to say that the suspicions directed towards Inzil mainly has to do with vote placement, and his role in the whole “don’t mention the ranger’ saga?

And Sally are suspected for not acting like innocent Sally + vote placement, and i guess we can add claiming to be giftet to the list (after first heavily implying it).

I haven't got time to go through all posts again, so please let me know if I missed any of the main points.

I believe that's pretty much it.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I'm looking through Lottie's posts of toDay and just read this:

So Zil explains why he didn't want to vote Hui because he mistrusted Lottie and me, and Lottie all but goes up in flames saying "How dare you still suspect us when we lynched a wolf?" When he actually hadn't said anything about whether he still suspected us or not. Then follows it up with this:


Now this kind of self-gratulation irks me. If you help lynch a wolf and people think you look good for it, you gratefully accept that, but you don't use your vote to exonerate yourself and say you look good for it, because that makes it seem that the vote was, well, calculated to be used this way.

Was I supposed to pretend it didn't happen? It's not like I said "okay, guys, I'm confirmed!!!".

I see Sally claims Hunter. I'd be happy to vote for Zil or Boro instead, looks like Zil is the more likely option right now, so I'll probably go that direction.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I don't believe Sally, but equally - we shouldn't lynch her. If she's real, we force the wolves to kill her; if she's fake, the real Hunter hunts her. Easy enough.

[Loslote]

On the other hand, if I'm her current pick, I would really rather not lynch her, please and thank you.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm playing from my phone - someone remind me, who besides Sally (and me) votes for Mac yesterday?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I'm playing from my phone - someone remind me, who besides Sally (and me) votes for Mac yesterday?

Lommy, Greenie, Hui, Zil, Boro

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I'm playing from my phone - someone remind me, who besides Sally (and me) votes for Mac yesterday?

I believe this is the correct order...

Lommy
Greenie
Huey
sally
Inzil
Me
Shasta

Edit: there was a bunch of cross voting in there after Huey's vote

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I don't believe Sally, but equally - we shouldn't lynch her. If she's real, we force the wolves to kill her; if she's fake, the real Hunter hunts her. Easy enough.

Concur.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I don't believe Sally, but equally - we shouldn't lynch her. If she's real, we force the wolves to kill her; if she's fake, the real Hunter hunts her. Easy enough.

I disagree. We can't delegate Sally to the "real hunter" if she's a wolf, it's all too much possible the real hunter will make it to the endgame without getting killed. And I very much doubt the wolves would Night kill Sally now - hunters often become long lived known innocents because the wolves don't dare to kill them. In this case, it wouldn't be very beneficial for us because many of us would still not trust her, and the wolves might also like to frame her that way if she's indeed the hunter. Again, I would rather have the hunter have their shot than have them as a known innocent. And given that I don't trust Sally's reveal one bit and I would rather not drag this out in a way that forces the real hunter to come out and waste their gift that way, I would really just rather lynch her. Either she's a wolf like I very much think, or else there's the silver lining that she can still kill a wolf for us. I don't want Sally to stick around as a "known innocent" because she simply isn't credible enough to be one, even if she actually is the actual hunter.


edit: xed with everyone

[Thinlómien]

Okay yes good point about the hunter pick.

Who are you "hunting" Sally?

[Nogrod]

Votes

THE Ka -> Sally
QT -> Brinn
Eönwë -> Sally 2
Kath -> Inzil
Greenie -> Sally 3
Lommy -> Sally 4
Inzil -> Brinn 2
Sally -> Lottie

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I could vote Eonwe, Inzil, Brinn or Lottie without feeling too bad. Though right now I am inclined to have Lottie at the bottom of that list because of her vote (if not for that vote she would probably be at the top).

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I disagree. We can't delegate Sally to the "real hunter" if she's a wolf, it's all too much possible the real hunter will make it to the endgame without getting killed. And I very much doubt the wolves would Night kill Sally now - hunters often become long lived known innocents because the wolves don't dare to kill them. In this case, it wouldn't be very beneficial for us because many of us would still not trust her, and the wolves might also like to frame her that way if she's indeed the hunter. Again, I would rather have the hunter have their shot than have them as a known innocent. And given that I don't trust Sally's reveal one bit and I would rather not drag this out in a way that forces the real hunter to come out and waste their gift that way, I would really just rather lynch her. Either she's a wolf like I very much think, or else there's the silver lining that she can still kill a wolf for us. I don't want Sally to stick around as a "known innocent" because she simply isn't credible enough to be one, even if she actually is the actual hunter.


edit: xed with everyone

I don't think I have ever seen anything make as little sense as this post.

Very weird.

[Lalaith]

Again, I would rather have the hunter have their shot than have them as a known innocent

Why? I like known innocents personally. Particularly ones the wolves are too scared to kill.

[satansaloser2005]

I'm fallible like the rest of you. I'm hunting someone I find suspicious, but I could be wrong.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I don't think I have ever seen anything make as little sense as this post.

Very weird.

What do you mean? Makes perfect sense.

If Wolves learn about a known Hunter, then every time they have chance to kill them, there's the risk that one of them will be pulled to the grave along. But in numbers, a Hunter is just one innocent. A known innocent for the WWs but not-entirely-known for the village! And the WWs can pick any other victim to kill every Night. They have like over a dozen others to pick from!

If sally doesn't tell us NOW who she's hunting, I may vote her, seriously.

[Brinniel]

For me, it's still between Zil and Sally. I would like to know who she's hunting though.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

What do you mean? Makes perfect sense.

If Wolves learn about a known Hunter, then every time they have chance to kill them, there's the risk that one of them will be pulled to the grave along. But in numbers, a Hunter is just one innocent. A known innocent for the WWs but not-entirely-known for the village! And the WWs can pick any other victim to kill every Night. They have like over a dozen others to pick from!

If sally doesn't tell us NOW who she's hunting, I may vote her, seriously.

I guess I don't see this as an actual problem for the village, at least not now (I accept that if a wolf does a counter-reveal in the closing stages of a game it might get messy, but that is it).

I completely agree that Sally has been acting odd with this reveal, but I think we have too much to loose by voting for her.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I don't believe Sally, but equally - we shouldn't lynch her. If she's real, we force the wolves to kill her; if she's fake, the real Hunter hunts her. Easy enough.

Except the Wolves may not kill her. Which, if she's real innocent, may be just as well, but it would still leave "what if" cloud hanging over the village.

EDIT: x-ed since my last. Heh.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I don't believe Sally, but equally - we shouldn't lynch her. If she's real, we force the wolves to kill her; if she's fake, the real Hunter hunts her. Easy enough.

It's too close to the deadline and we have no idea who her pick would be anyway. I'm not voting for Sally.

[Loslote]

Alright, alternatives. There are 10 votes left to be cast. I'd rather vote for Zil or Boro, where does everyone else stand?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Alright, alternatives. There are 10 votes left to be cast. I'd rather vote for Zil or Boro, where does everyone else stand?

Zil or Lhuna

[Macalaure]

Ka, I'm so sorry!

Originally Posted by Greenie

If I understand you right, and remember right, I think this is down to me not writing clearly – the “he” in that quote referred to you, not Huin. As in, your suspicion of Huin came after you had already voted for Lommy so you couldn’t act on it whether you’d have wanted to or not. (Please poke me again if that’s wrong too though!)

Gotcha.


I don't get what the quarantined are trying to accomplish with their vote. We know it's still in evil hand. It seems quite unlikely Brinn will be lynched toDay. If this is some attempt at reverse psychology, it's not working.

Originally Posted by Boro

Are you glad we didn't have to autopsy you to find the answers? If you're upset I still have the butter.

Bring the butter, my body is ready!

Originally Posted by Inzil

You know what?
I'm not going to hold out to try to save myself.

This coming before Sally's reveal I find perplexing.

Originally Posted by Sally

Hey, don't lynch your hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't trust this, but it gives me enough pause to hold my vote for a bit.

[Lalaith]

Mac

He makes a shockingly negligible amount of sense here.

Yep, this was what I highlighted about Boro earlier. I don't mind a wacky Boro but a waffly one worries me.
Like Legate I want Sally to tell us who she is hunting.
So much unanimity on Sally is a bit unsettling.
So I would rather go Eonwe (from the dodgy behaviour stated in my earlier post) or Boro toDay. Brinn would be acceptable (Second time taunt from QT - really?)
I am still not completely happy with Legate but because of his Huivote I feel a bit better and won't vote for him toDay.

[Pitchwife]

Thing is, if we lynch sally and she hits a wolf, we're one wolf down but we also loose an innocent. Whereas if we lynch a wolf instead -

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Thing is, if we lynch sally and she hits a wolf, we're one wolf down but we also loose an innocent. Whereas if we lynch a wolf instead -

Yeah, but listen. If we lynch anyone else, there's a chance they're just an ordo. With Sally, it's either a wolf or the hunter, who is the innocent losing whom can be a good thing for us. Unlike losing an ordo. Think it through. (I guess if you ignore how suspicious Sally is and that a real hunter would really consider before revealing it boils down to whether you want to take your chances with one extra person dying who might or might not be a wolf.)


edit: again xed, now I will breathe deep and catch up

[Lalaith]

Salllllly!!!
Tell us!!!

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Yeah, but listen. If we lynch anyone else, there's a chance they're just an ordo. With Sally, it's either a wolf or the hunter, who is the innocent losing whom can be a good thing for us. Unlike losing an ordo. Think it through. (I guess if you ignore how suspicious Sally is and that a real hunter would really consider before revealing it boils down to whether you want to take your chances with one extra person dying who might or might not be a wolf.)

Unless we lynch the hunter who hunts an ordo, and then we're just down two innocents. And since she's been suspecting me and Pitch, and I know I'm innocent and Pitch is one of the people I trust the most right now, I really don't want to let her just kill one of us.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Why? I like known innocents personally. Particularly ones the wolves are too scared to kill.

You personally like known innocents, I personally like dead wolves, and I'm willing to take risks to get them.

Originally Posted by Legate

If Wolves learn about a known Hunter, then every time they have chance to kill them, there's the risk that one of them will be pulled to the grave along. But in numbers, a Hunter is just one innocent. A known innocent for the WWs but not-entirely-known for the village! And the WWs can pick any other victim to kill every Night. They have like over a dozen others to pick from!

Hear, hear. See how some of you were suspecting Kit because she didn't die the second she made a rangerish comment. What do you honestly imagine would happen with Sally?

oh holy I just looked at clock!!!!

Let's take the Sally chance, no weird last minute things please!!!


edit: xed with a million people again

[Thinlómien]

Seriously I think hunter Sally would play smarter than this.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

So much unanimity on Sally is a bit unsettling.

Personally I find her so glaringly suspicious that if she's indeed a wolf and we lynch her, I'm not giving anyone a free pass toMorrow for voting her. I doubt all her packmates would try to pooh-pooh away her behaviour which has been eyebrow raising to say the least, starting from the vote yesterDay. *hammering the point for a billionth time*


edit: xed with everyone

[Loslote]

The fact that Sally just dropped this and apparently left without saying who her pick is does make me think she's more likely to be a wolf, at least. Still, really don't want to take the risk that she might be hunting me, since I've been at the top of her list for Days now.