Tidbits of Curiosity

[Urwen]

I think so. Their actions led to good things. Without Maeglin, War of Wrath wouldn't have happened. Without Gollum, the Ring wouldn't have been destroyed.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I think so. Their actions led to good things. Without Maeglin, War of Wrath wouldn't have happened. Without Gollum, the Ring wouldn't have been destroyed.

A [complex] evil that leads to good - but still remains evil?

I was also thinking about their position and eventual choices. Alienated from their society (to different degrees, of course), hiding away from the world, lusting after an unattainable object, betraying the only other thing that matters in order to satisfy the lust by willingly going over to the enemy, eventually dying in a desperate bid for their desire.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

A [complex] evil that leads to good - but still remains evil?

I was also thinking about their position and eventual choices. Alienated from their society (to different degrees, of course), hiding away from the world, lusting after an unattainable object, betraying the only other thing that matters in order to satisfy the lust by willingly going over to the enemy, eventually dying in a desperate bid for their desire.

I suppose that's true, though there are differences. One lusted after another person, the other lusted after an object. One committed suicide, the other was murdered.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

One committed suicide, the other was murdered.

'Murder' usually implies you're not in the middle of trying to kill your murderer... They both died by getting into a fight at the top of a cliff and winding up going over the edge.

The biggest difference, really, is that Gollum didn't go over to the Enemy. He gave up information under torture, but remained a free agent afterwards. Maeglin, meanwhile, not only didn't need to be tortured, but ended up actively working to weaken Gondolin for Morgoth's attack.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

'Murder' usually implies you're not in the middle of trying to kill your murderer... They both died by getting into a fight at the top of a cliff and winding up going over the edge.

For a second, I thought you were implying that Tuor fell off the cliff too...Then I realized you meant Gollum.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

'Murder' usually implies you're not in the middle of trying to kill your murderer... They both died by getting into a fight at the top of a cliff and winding up going over the edge.

The biggest difference, really, is that Gollum didn't go over to the Enemy. He gave up information under torture, but remained a free agent afterwards. Maeglin, meanwhile, not only didn't need to be tortured, but ended up actively working to weaken Gondolin for Morgoth's attack.

hS

Most of the fanfictions I've read go with the idea that Tuor actively pushed/threw Maeglin off the cliffside. (As in, physically lifting him up and chucking him over the edge)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The biggest difference, really, is that Gollum didn't go over to the Enemy. He gave up information under torture, but remained a free agent afterwards. Maeglin, meanwhile, not only didn't need to be tortured, but ended up actively working to weaken Gondolin for Morgoth's attack.

He did bring Frodo to Shelob - and it's implied that he expected to get the rags and the rings that would be left over after her meal. When he revealed Baggins under torture, he wasn't under any obligation to Frodo, so there was no one to betray.

Originally Posted by Urwen

Most of the fanfictions I've read go with the idea that Tuor actively pushed/threw Maeglin off the cliffside. (As in, physically lifting him up and chucking him over the edge)

Which is still part of the fight that Maeglin started. Killing in battle is not really murder - especially when it's done in defense of yourself and your wife and kid.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Which is still part of the fight that Maeglin started. Killing in battle is not really murder - especially when it's done in defense of yourself and your wife and kid.

Self-defense is still technically murder, despite being excusable.


See it for yourself:



This is what it looked like from Maeglin's perspective.