Tidbits of Curiosity

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

How literally do we take Melian? She claims that there is malice in Anglachel, and that "the dark heart of the smith still dwells in it" (way to talk about your husband's cousin!). That's similar to how Gandalf describes the One Ring: "the treasure of the Enemy, fraught with all his malice; and in it lies a great part of his strength of old." If Melian is telling the truth, Anglachel is basically a One Ring Lite, so yeah, it's kind of evil.

The question is, does Anguirel share this trait? That depends on whether putting malice and his heart into the swords was intentional. There's nothing to indicate that Anglachel was forged with the intent of paying it to Thingol, so it might well be similar to its mate, yes.

Speaking of paired swords... does anyone have any thoughts on what this concept of mated pairs of weapons actually... means? You've got Anglachel and Anguirel, and then Glamdring and Orcrist... is it just a super fancy way of saying they were forged together? Or is there something more to it?



Oh, come on, I didn't even know I needed this! For preference, I'd like it tucked into the Master Family Tree (like the master map/s), which will finally answer such questions as how many generations there were between the Awakening and the Great March (not to mention naming the Lords of Andunie and Princes of Dol Amroth, Cardolan, and Rhudaur!).



^_^ And this is why Middle-earth fanfic is the best fanfic: because Tolkien laid down so much material to work from, but also left lots of gaps that we just itch to fill. Obviously it's not as good as getting actual new Tolkien material, but unless you're really into outdated linguistic snippets, that well apparently ran dry with The Children of Hurin, twelve years ago.

hS

Not necessarily. Like I said, Fall of Gondolin book came out.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Not necessarily. Like I said, Fall of Gondolin book came out.

Yeah... unfortunately there's not really new material in there. It's possible that the 'evolution of the story' section has some, but the bulk of it is just the versions told in the Book of Lost Tales, 1930s Silmarillion, and Unfinished Tales.

Oh, but you said you've not read HoME, so yes! The Fall contains quite a lot of M[a]eglin, along with a heck of a lot of details about Gondolin itself. You'll like it.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Yeah... unfortunately there's not really new material in there. It's possible that the 'evolution of the story' section has some, but the bulk of it is just the versions told in the Book of Lost Tales, 1930s Silmarillion, and Unfinished Tales.

Oh, but you said you've not read HoME, so yes! The Fall contains quite a lot of M[a]eglin, along with a heck of a lot of details about Gondolin itself. You'll like it.

hS

Of course there would be. He is the main reason it happened.



And that's what I'm counting on. It would probably be a while before it's translated into my language, though.

[Urwen]

If Idril is the big good of FoG, does that make M[a]eglin big bad? Or does that 'honor' still fall to Morgoth?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

If Idril is the big good of FoG, does that make M[a]eglin big bad? Or does that 'honor' still fall to Morgoth?

Interesting. I would say that they do actually occupy much the same position - while not playing a particularly large part in the great events (Maeglin is actually off trying to kidnap Idril at the time), they're the driving force that leads to those events. Maeglin betrays Gondolin, of course; meanwhile Idril commits her own act of arguable treason, going against her father's express wishes to dig an escape tunnel. (She actually tells the people working on it that she'll square it with her dad - but doesn't, because she knows he won't do it!)

Ultimately, the hero of the story still winds up being Tuor, while Morgoth remains as the ultimate villain. But their actions are enabled and pushed forward by the other two.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Interesting. I would say that they do actually occupy much the same position - while not playing a particularly large part in the great events (Maeglin is actually off trying to kidnap Idril at the time), they're the driving force that leads to those events. Maeglin betrays Gondolin, of course; meanwhile Idril commits her own act of arguable treason, going against her father's express wishes to dig an escape tunnel. (She actually tells the people working on it that she'll square it with her dad - but doesn't, because she knows he won't do it!)

Ultimately, the hero of the story still winds up being Tuor, while Morgoth remains as the ultimate villain. But their actions are enabled and pushed forward by the other two.

hS

Cross posted. Interesting thoughts. I saw Idril almlst like the Melian of Gondolin, but I guess you're right: Melian is on Thingol's level and her advice is heeded, while Idril is much below, at the level of Maeglin.

[Urwen]

I think so. Their actions led to good things. Without Maeglin, War of Wrath wouldn't have happened. Without Gollum, the Ring wouldn't have been destroyed.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

If Idril is the big good of FoG, does that make M[a]eglin big bad? Or does that 'honor' still fall to Morgoth?

Haven't read it, but here's an idea based on The Silm. Morgoth is always the big bad, the ultimate evil. Elves and Men and Dwarves are never the ultimate villains of the story because none are wholly villains. However, Morgoth often takes the backstage when he is so far away from the development of the plot, so each story has it's own set of antagonists, which in proportion may not be quite as big of a bad but a more relevant bad.

Do you find that Maeglin's story and role seems to resemble that of Gollum?