Sex Amongst the Maiar (and the Other Beings in Arda)

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

I am resurrecting this thread because I love it and it's my baby and I can't let it die. My ideas have changed since I originally posted this and I feel like I should add something.

Originally Posted by Snowdog

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that Sauron was Morgoth's mate yet....

Okay, I'm putting the idea out there about Sauron being Morgoth's (um?) concubine? Lover?

Originally Posted by Zigûr

I just noticed this. Is it a metaphorical statement? Surely it is well-established that Sauron was never just a big floating eyeball. Nonetheless I can't think that Sauron, whose first fixation was Order and later simply hatred for those who appeared to obstruct his vision of Order, would have had much interest in anything sexual even at his most incarnate level of spiritual degradation. Sauron seems to me to have been an obsessive person, who in the Third Age at least had two overriding goals: the conquest of the West of Middle-earth and the recovery of the Rings of Power (and especially, of course, the One Ring). He does not strike me as the kind of person who put those fixations aside for the sake of his leisure.

After Sauron's physical form was destroyed, he was not a giant eyeball but, well, I imagine him as being just energy at that point. He still has a will and opinions, but it's not like he can act them out. I guess he's mostly like a ghost in physicality.

Anyway, I agree with you about Sauron being obsessive. He always struck me as being so totally focused on dominating the world, that he didn't care a bit about anything else. Perhaps he used sex as a way to dominate his subordinates when he was still Morgoth's right hand man. But I still view Sauron as being too busy with the whole megalomania thing to be bothered with the relationship or even physical part of sex.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

But I still view Sauron as being too busy with the whole megalomania thing to be bothered with the relationship or even physical part of sex.

That makes me think of Bored of the Rings, which had Sorhed (Sauron) and Schlob (Shelob) being the parents of "nine strapping wraiths".

Really though, why would Maia want or need physical relationships? They weren't necessary from a biological perspective. Maia were only "guests" in Arda, not part of it (Melian is a special case: her being smitten with Thingol was plainly something fated to happen: she had no will in the matter).

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

After Sauron's physical form was destroyed, he was not a giant eyeball but, well, I imagine him as being just energy at that point. He still has a will and opinions, but it's not like he can act them out. I guess he's mostly like a ghost in physicality.

Which time losing his body do you mean?

He kind of made a habit of it.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That makes me think of Bored of the Rings, which had Sorhed (Sauron) and Schlob (Shelob) being the parents of "nine strapping wraiths".

Really though, why would Maia want or need physical relationships? They weren't necessary from a biological perspective. Maia were only "guests" in Arda, not part of it (Melian is a special case: her being smitten with Thingol was plainly something fated to happen: she had no will in the matter).

Why would the Valar? Yet they did. Or at least had spouses.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Why would the Valar? Yet they did. Or at least had spouses.

Spouses, yes. Relationships? Obviously. Some seemed to have the need for companionship to (I shudder to say it) "complete" them. The physical side is what I question though. I would posit that physicality was even a "base" concept for them (hence Morgoth's "evil lust" for Lúthien).

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The physical side is what I question though. I would posit that physicality was even a "base" concept for them (hence Morgoth's "evil lust" for Lúthien).

I agree. I wish I could find that quote about the difference between Valar marriages and those of the Eruhíni, but maybe I just imagined it...

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Which time losing his body do you mean?

He kind of made a habit of it.

Haha, you're right. He really did.

I don't have the Sil here to reference right now, but I believe that none of the valar had children, and the only maia to have a child was Melian. Was childbearing even possible for these beings?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

Was childbearing even possible for these beings?

I would say any of the Maia would have been capable, but would have had to have emulated Melian in taking a 'real' body along the lines of the Children of Ilúvatar: material, needing nourishment, water, and sleep; and able to be 'killed', ala Saruman.

That does mean the Istari could have sired children, and so could Sauron, since his physical form was tied to Arda.