Werewolf CXII - Dueling Wizards III - The Living Thread

[Lalaith]

They must have thought he was a gifted/ the GW. It certainly isn't a no-trace kill, and it doesn't make sense as a frame.

I wondered if they killed him as a scry - they might have wondered if he was the GW.
The wolves have, I suppose, two goes at a GW scry each Night - if they try to turn or kill the GW they get told they've found him/her, right?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I wondered if they killed him as a scry - they might have wondered if he was the GW.
The wolves have, I suppose, two goes at a GW scry each Night - if they try to turn or kill the GW they get told they've found him/her, right?

Well, the target's failure to die would convey that anyway.

Was the site down for anyone else?

[Lalaith]

, the target's failure to die would convey that anyway.

Was the site down for anyone else?

Well it could be a Ranger save. But I'm pretty sure the rules say EW gets told about any attempt on the GW.
Yes the site was down for me. Hence anxious post on the FB page.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

This gets stranger and stranger. And scarier. What are all these noises meant to mean?

Well, it looks like Nogs was innocent after all, so I'm glad we didn't lynch him.
I've been thinking about what the Dead are trying to tell us (apart from the rather depressing fact that Lottie was innocent, as well). They seem to like the votes for Eonwe and Legate.
Also, if we are all still here - are we innocents still in a small majority? (5 versus 3, in that case?)
Or can the game not end until there is a Duel?

There clearly are not as many baddies as there could have been (which would be half by now, so the game would have ended). Which means that either we lynched some (which would have to be Boro), or they didn't make a Wolf every Night (or some combination of both).

Originally Posted by Nerwen

They must have thought he was a gifted/ the GW. It certainly isn't a no-trace kill, and it doesn't make sense as a frame.

It certainly isn't a kill of a "quiet player", that's for sure. He also talked basically about everyone. Although since you are saying it wouldn't make sense as a frame - that actually got me thinking why would you specifically say that, because I would not first even see people his death would point at, since he talked about everyone, let alone that it could somehow be a bluff to frame someone. But he got votes from you and Eönwë (and he could have gotten more votes, like I was all the time considering him, and I am pretty sure I wasn't the only one). But since you are so eager to downplay any connections, could Wolf-Nerwen or EW-Nerwen be so desperate (for whichever reason) to kill Nog to try to lynch him and then kill him when it didn't work out? But the reason is the problem there - it's the same problem as the idea that he was killed because they thought him to be a Gifted or a GW - it's all fine, but I don't think he behaved in any way "specially". Unless he voiced his opinion on somebody specific and it was spot on - but he was voicing his opinion on everything.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I wondered if they killed him as a scry - they might have wondered if he was the GW.
The wolves have, I suppose, two goes at a GW scry each Night - if they try to turn or kill the GW they get told they've found him/her, right?

It would make sense that way, too. Speaking of that, I would have expected a Wizard Duel by now. So maybe if the Wizards are sort of trying to maximise the amount of people they scry, since they somehow didn't manage to learn each other's identities yet?

But anyway, for me it is like back to the drawing board and I might try to look at the village freshly, because we can be like anywhere.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

There clearly are not as many baddies as there could have been (which would be half by now, so the game would have ended). Which means that either we lynched some (which would have to be Boro), or they didn't make a Wolf every Night (or some combination of both).

Eomer speculated yesterDay that the Night Four wolf-kill had been blocked by a Ranger-save and that the "buzzing" signalled the transformation of Mith into a Visitor. Seems we can rule that out- but then what did happen? A normal Wolf-kill + the EW's scrying/conversion being blocked? And what about Night Two and last Night? It must mean something that the "buzzing" only occurs on some Nights and not others. Note that it did not occur on the Night One, on which we know (or at least can assume) a wolf was created- so it doesn't mean that. Does it mean scrying? Does it indicate "streams crossing", so to speak- one power cancelling another out? Note also that the narrations on two of those nights seems to indicate something being thwarted. I'm harping on this because it may give us some clue *when* wolf-conversions occurred.

It certainly isn't a kill of a "quiet player", that's for sure. He also talked basically about everyone. Although since you are saying it wouldn't make sense as a frame - that actually got me thinking why would you specifically say that, because I would not first even see people his death would point at, since he talked about everyone, let alone that it could somehow be a bluff to frame someone. But he got votes from you and Eönwë (and he could have gotten more votes, like I was all the time considering him, and I am pretty sure I wasn't the only one). But since you are so eager to downplay any connections, could Wolf-Nerwen or EW-Nerwen be so desperate (for whichever reason) to kill Nog to try to lynch him and then kill him when it didn't work out? But the reason is the problem there - it's the same problem as the idea that he was killed because they thought him to be a Gifted or a GW - it's all fine, but I don't think he behaved in any way "specially". Unless he voiced his opinion on somebody specific and it was spot on - but he was voicing his opinion on everything.

My thought is that his "maybe evil" behaviour looked "maybe gifted/wizardy" to the wolves, who after all had the benefit of knowing what he *wasn't*.

And no, I'm not "eager to downplay" the possibility that I killed him, since from my point of view it isn't a possibility. Who do you think I am, Volo?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Eomer speculated yesterDay that the Night Four wolf-kill had been blocked by a Ranger-save and that the "buzzing" signalled the transformation of Mith into a Visitor. Seems we can rule that out- but then what did happen? A normal Wolf-kill + the EW's scrying/conversion being blocked? And what about Night Two and last Night? It must mean something that the "buzzing" only occurs on some Nights and not others. Note that it did not occur on the Night One, on which we know (or at least can assume) a wolf was created- so it doesn't mean that. Does it mean scrying? Does it indicate "streams crossing", so to speak- one power cancelling another out? Note also that the narrations on two of those nights seems to indicate something being thwarted. I'm harping on this because it may give us some clue *when* wolf-conversions occurred.

Yes, that's actually a good point. There is also the sentence about "many powers swirling around" in the second Night, which makes it seem like there were more things than usual, or something more dramatic happening.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

My thought is that his "maybe evil" behaviour looked "maybe gifted/wizardy" to the wolves, who after all had the benefit of knowing what he *wasn't*.

Well that could be the case, but it seems still fairly random to me.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And no, I'm not "eager to downplay" the possibility that I killed him, since from my point of view it isn't a possibility. Who do you think I am, Volo?

Well you would obviously know who you are, but it was that you dismissed it so noncommitally that struck me. Besides, it could have pointed at you as much as at Eönwë for the same reason (Nog also voted him and he had voiced some suspicion of Eönwë earlier), and you did not seem to consider that.

That all being said, considering how many of us are left, we obviously have baddies among people who have managed not to draw suspicion from the very beginning, and I am going to take a closer look at people I haven't found suspicious so far. The worst thing about this game is that we don't know about any roles of Wolves, which could offer some pointers as to who might be packmates with whom. Without that, it's really difficult to find Wolves who manage to remain looking innocent and don't do anything that would have clearly evil intent.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well you would obviously know who you are, but it was that you dismissed it so noncommitally that struck me. Besides, it could have pointed at you as much as at Eönwë for the same reason (Nog also voted him and he had voiced some suspicion of Eönwë earlier), and you did not seem to consider that.

A wolf killing someone *just* for suspecting him at this point? When there could be a Hunter around? As I said, that scenario seems too weak even for a frame.