"Do You Hate Women?"

[Mithadan]

In your case, Morthoron may, if he wishes.

Through the lens of willing suspension of disbelief (and pretending that I have never read the books) I do not dislike Tauriel. From the perspective of a "purist", I find Tauriel slightly less annoying and offensive than the portrayal of Radagast. The two are followed by my distaste for the "White Orc" whose inclusion seems only necessary to provide action and expand the material to stretch it into three movies.

Regarding Ms. Lily's comments in the interview, if she wanted to discuss substance, she should have been more familiar with the author and his work. I wasn't too thrilled about the "why are all the kings underground" query either.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

Through the lens of willing suspension of disbelief (and pretending that I have never read the books) I do not dislike Tauriel. From the perspective of a "purist", I find Tauriel slightly less annoying and offensive than the portrayal of Radagast. The two are followed by my distaste for the "White Orc" whose inclusion seems only necessary to provide action and expand the material to stretch it into three movies.

I will say, I don't dislike Tauriel's inclusion anymore than I dislike Alfrid's. Even though that's not saying much, both are useless and unnecessary.

[Zigûr]

In one of the critical works I used in my thesis, the author discussed the traditional dichotomy associating the masculine with the mental, rational and artificial and the feminine with the physical, emotional and the natural. I touched upon how, in Professor Tolkien's work, he does not necessarily support such a dichotomy by portraying emotionality and nature across gender.

I wonder if a more sophisticated production which was less interested in fulfilling Hollywood quotas could have explored gender in the narrative by doing something more interesting than inserting a female love interest for one of the Dwarves, perhaps by going further in contrasting Bilbo's appreciation of nature to Thorin's increasing obsession with the man made and non-living and working with the different masculinities presented.

The nature-artifice divide was actually touched upon in the third film but only to a very limited extent. I think there were definitely more interesting ways of handling the exclusively male nature of the original text. I like the idea of some of the Dwarves being female, but again they would require more of a role and characterisation than they received.

[Michael Murry]

My compliments to the commenters for their various acidic views on the promotional interview that took place over a year ago featuring three marginal cast members of The Hobbit films. I have refrained from viewing it, primarily because I haven't yet rid my system of the rancid bile induced by watching the last -- thankfully -- of the tree "tent pole" films, each shamelessly seeking to vacuum the last penny from the pockets of every conveivable teenage fantasy film demographic.

Still, I would like to extend my most sincere gratitude to Morthoron for mentioning "the inane Legolas mpreg stories," rated only one notch below the Jackson/Boyens scripts for these films. I had thought that in my Elf Chick Security Guard cylce of poems I had successfully lampooned the most cheesy/sleazy film gimmicks personified in the Itaril (release 1.0) / Tauriel (release 2.0) character. But even I, a jaded swab-jocky veteran of Uncle Sam's Canoe Club, could not top:

Legolas Mpreg

“This is basically a community who love Legolas as well [as] pregnant. It can be Aragorn[,] Gimili[,] even one o[f] the twins[,] but please no Thranduil or Elrond.... I just can't bear that …”

See: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1208495...ve-Secret-Life

"Secret Love, Secret Life"
by slightly-psychotic

[An excerpt from a scene where the pregnant Legolas experiences morning sickness while trekking through the wilds of Middle Earth with Gimli and Aragorn]:

“All of this he kept to himself. He did not want to worry the others. Especially Aragorn. The thought of the King of Gondor brought a smile to his face and he smiled happily remembering the feel of those rough calloused hands caressing him as they had the previous night. All too suddenly the wonderful thoughts were knocked from his mind as another wave of nausea hit and he threw up once more.”

I can well understand the nausea. Only in the case of the three Hobbit films, Peter Jackson and Phillipa Boyens provided that without even requiring interspecies, homosexual pregnancy -- although they hinted at the possibility of mating a female horse (elf) with a male donkey (dwarf) which would produce ... ?

I really can't let that Legolas Mpreg thing go unchallenged in verse. Now I have to go back through all of my poems to see what, if anything, I missed ridiculing.

Thanks again, Morthoron. .

[Faramir Jones]

An interesting contribution, Michael, which leaves the question open about how this pregnancy happened without some magical or divine intervention, or both...

It reminds me of the scene in Money Python's The Life of Brian when one of the Jewish resisters told his comrades that he wanted to be a woman, because he wanted to have babies. Even if he couldn't physically have a child, he still wanted the right to have one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

I also recall a piece of X-Files fanfiction where Fox Mulder ended up pregnant by Dana Scully, the baby being genetically theirs. Certain people badly disposed to them decided to do an experiment by putting them both to sleep, extracting the relevant material, fertilising an egg and implanting it in Agent Mulder. I found it just about acceptable, due to the nature of the X-Files universe. That story you linked us to, however...

Zigûr, I liked what you said here:

if a more sophisticated production which was less interested in fulfilling Hollywood quotas could have explored gender in the narrative by doing something more interesting than inserting a female love interest for one of the Dwarves, perhaps by going further in contrasting Bilbo's appreciation of nature to Thorin's increasing obsession with the man made and non-living and working with the different masculinities presented.

In my opinion, the book itself offered some suggestions on how this could be done. First, there was a reference by Bilbo to Gandalf being 'responsible for so many hobbit lads and lasses' going on adventures. (My emphasis) I contend that putting a female hobbit into the films would have made more sense than a female elf; because one could have made an argument that Tolkien himself hinted in the text that female hobbits also went off on adventures.

Second, it's clear that Bilbo was fully capable of looking after Bag End on his own, without any help. He was able to bake seed cake; and after waking up the following morning after the party, did the (considerable) washing up and cleaning. The first film could have shown him doing this, quite competently, without him grumbling that it wasn't his job. He would be shown as a hero who does considerable housework as a matter of course.

[Michael Murry]

I realize that the "Hobbit" movies have come and gone, and the Elf Chick Warrior Queen sequels have not yet entered pre-production, but for those longing for more of the "strong woman," "shield maiden" thing in films, I note that the the History Channel has announced Season Four of the Canadian/Irish program "Vikings," which begins Thursday, February 18 in North America and Friday, February 19 here in Asia. Since J. R. R. Tolkien had something of an interest in Scandinavian/Anglo-Saxon history and languages, perhaps this series will provide something for retro-projected feminism to enjoy. The first three seasons had quite a bit of that. Just saying ...

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Michael Murry

Legolas Mpreg

“This is basically a community who love Legolas as well [as] pregnant. It can be Aragorn[,] Gimili[,] even one o[f] the twins[,] but please no Thranduil or Elrond.... I just can't bear that …”

So, (ahem...) a pregnant Legolas is okay, as long as it wasn't Thranduil or Elrond who impregnated him? Okay. Got it. Thank you, Legolas MPREG.

SMH. Nonsense like this is enough to cause me hesternopothia.

[Aaron]

If they wanted a strong female character - which, I'm sorry to say, Tauriel wasn't - why not have an orc or goblin character?
Let's say they were going more by the books, and having Bolg as the leader of the orcs instead of Azog. They could have easily have given him a sister - who could have fought with him, and spurred him on, reminding him of the genuine grievances they had with Thorin and his company: In regards to both his father's death, and the death of the Great Goblin.
In the war between the Dwarves and the Orcs, Tolkien explicitly states that there was much cruelty on both sides. It wasn't a case of good and evil. You could easily show the family dynamic of an Orc dynasty looking for revenge.

Instead, we had to have a female character who ceased to really be a character. She looked perfect, fought perfectly, and seemed to exist only to pine and whine about love.
There was no personality to her, no zest, she was there to make up the numbers - and I actually find that more offensive than there being no female characters in the first place.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Aaron

If they wanted a strong female character - which, I'm sorry to say, Tauriel wasn't - why not have an orc or goblin character?

I would even ask, if one wants a strong female character, why does she have to be shown slaying warriors by the dozen?

Gladriel killed nobody in any of three films, and she radiates strength. But, this contemporary desire to highlight some form of blatant "girl power", or something, creates Tauriels all of the time, which are both cliche and almost obligatory.