"Do You Hate Women?"

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

BTW, Morth, the system won't let me give you any more 'reputation' but I have to congratulate you on your marvelous facility with alkaline polemic when it comes to PBJ; you spin it with the admirable and effortless invention of a Mozart spinning counterpoint.

Thanks, WCH, but hoisting PJ on his own petard is as easy as shooting dwarves in a barrel (if I may mix metaphors).

From my standpoint, if one wishes to deviate from a classic book, and in particular add a main character extraneous from the original plot, the changes must a) be required to advance the story from a visual rather than literary medium, b) be plausible within the context of the story, and c) offer the actor a memorable role and script with which to work.

I think PJ/Boyens failed on all 3 counts, and in baseball parlance that is a strike-out.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

as easy as shooting dwarves in a barrel (if I may mix metaphors).

Hey!

You may not mix your metaphors, sir!

[Mithadan]

In your case, Morthoron may, if he wishes.

Through the lens of willing suspension of disbelief (and pretending that I have never read the books) I do not dislike Tauriel. From the perspective of a "purist", I find Tauriel slightly less annoying and offensive than the portrayal of Radagast. The two are followed by my distaste for the "White Orc" whose inclusion seems only necessary to provide action and expand the material to stretch it into three movies.

Regarding Ms. Lily's comments in the interview, if she wanted to discuss substance, she should have been more familiar with the author and his work. I wasn't too thrilled about the "why are all the kings underground" query either.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

Through the lens of willing suspension of disbelief (and pretending that I have never read the books) I do not dislike Tauriel. From the perspective of a "purist", I find Tauriel slightly less annoying and offensive than the portrayal of Radagast. The two are followed by my distaste for the "White Orc" whose inclusion seems only necessary to provide action and expand the material to stretch it into three movies.

I will say, I don't dislike Tauriel's inclusion anymore than I dislike Alfrid's. Even though that's not saying much, both are useless and unnecessary.

[Zigûr]

In one of the critical works I used in my thesis, the author discussed the traditional dichotomy associating the masculine with the mental, rational and artificial and the feminine with the physical, emotional and the natural. I touched upon how, in Professor Tolkien's work, he does not necessarily support such a dichotomy by portraying emotionality and nature across gender.

I wonder if a more sophisticated production which was less interested in fulfilling Hollywood quotas could have explored gender in the narrative by doing something more interesting than inserting a female love interest for one of the Dwarves, perhaps by going further in contrasting Bilbo's appreciation of nature to Thorin's increasing obsession with the man made and non-living and working with the different masculinities presented.

The nature-artifice divide was actually touched upon in the third film but only to a very limited extent. I think there were definitely more interesting ways of handling the exclusively male nature of the original text. I like the idea of some of the Dwarves being female, but again they would require more of a role and characterisation than they received.

[Michael Murry]

My compliments to the commenters for their various acidic views on the promotional interview that took place over a year ago featuring three marginal cast members of The Hobbit films. I have refrained from viewing it, primarily because I haven't yet rid my system of the rancid bile induced by watching the last -- thankfully -- of the tree "tent pole" films, each shamelessly seeking to vacuum the last penny from the pockets of every conveivable teenage fantasy film demographic.

Still, I would like to extend my most sincere gratitude to Morthoron for mentioning "the inane Legolas mpreg stories," rated only one notch below the Jackson/Boyens scripts for these films. I had thought that in my Elf Chick Security Guard cylce of poems I had successfully lampooned the most cheesy/sleazy film gimmicks personified in the Itaril (release 1.0) / Tauriel (release 2.0) character. But even I, a jaded swab-jocky veteran of Uncle Sam's Canoe Club, could not top:

Legolas Mpreg

“This is basically a community who love Legolas as well [as] pregnant. It can be Aragorn[,] Gimili[,] even one o[f] the twins[,] but please no Thranduil or Elrond.... I just can't bear that …”

See: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1208495...ve-Secret-Life

"Secret Love, Secret Life"
by slightly-psychotic

[An excerpt from a scene where the pregnant Legolas experiences morning sickness while trekking through the wilds of Middle Earth with Gimli and Aragorn]:

“All of this he kept to himself. He did not want to worry the others. Especially Aragorn. The thought of the King of Gondor brought a smile to his face and he smiled happily remembering the feel of those rough calloused hands caressing him as they had the previous night. All too suddenly the wonderful thoughts were knocked from his mind as another wave of nausea hit and he threw up once more.”

I can well understand the nausea. Only in the case of the three Hobbit films, Peter Jackson and Phillipa Boyens provided that without even requiring interspecies, homosexual pregnancy -- although they hinted at the possibility of mating a female horse (elf) with a male donkey (dwarf) which would produce ... ?

I really can't let that Legolas Mpreg thing go unchallenged in verse. Now I have to go back through all of my poems to see what, if anything, I missed ridiculing.

Thanks again, Morthoron. .

[Faramir Jones]

An interesting contribution, Michael, which leaves the question open about how this pregnancy happened without some magical or divine intervention, or both...

It reminds me of the scene in Money Python's The Life of Brian when one of the Jewish resisters told his comrades that he wanted to be a woman, because he wanted to have babies. Even if he couldn't physically have a child, he still wanted the right to have one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

I also recall a piece of X-Files fanfiction where Fox Mulder ended up pregnant by Dana Scully, the baby being genetically theirs. Certain people badly disposed to them decided to do an experiment by putting them both to sleep, extracting the relevant material, fertilising an egg and implanting it in Agent Mulder. I found it just about acceptable, due to the nature of the X-Files universe. That story you linked us to, however...

Zigûr, I liked what you said here:

if a more sophisticated production which was less interested in fulfilling Hollywood quotas could have explored gender in the narrative by doing something more interesting than inserting a female love interest for one of the Dwarves, perhaps by going further in contrasting Bilbo's appreciation of nature to Thorin's increasing obsession with the man made and non-living and working with the different masculinities presented.

In my opinion, the book itself offered some suggestions on how this could be done. First, there was a reference by Bilbo to Gandalf being 'responsible for so many hobbit lads and lasses' going on adventures. (My emphasis) I contend that putting a female hobbit into the films would have made more sense than a female elf; because one could have made an argument that Tolkien himself hinted in the text that female hobbits also went off on adventures.

Second, it's clear that Bilbo was fully capable of looking after Bag End on his own, without any help. He was able to bake seed cake; and after waking up the following morning after the party, did the (considerable) washing up and cleaning. The first film could have shown him doing this, quite competently, without him grumbling that it wasn't his job. He would be shown as a hero who does considerable housework as a matter of course.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Michael Murry

Legolas Mpreg

“This is basically a community who love Legolas as well [as] pregnant. It can be Aragorn[,] Gimili[,] even one o[f] the twins[,] but please no Thranduil or Elrond.... I just can't bear that …”

So, (ahem...) a pregnant Legolas is okay, as long as it wasn't Thranduil or Elrond who impregnated him? Okay. Got it. Thank you, Legolas MPREG.

SMH. Nonsense like this is enough to cause me hesternopothia.