T-I-G CVIII: Wolves of the Galadhrim (Game Thread)

[Coppermirror]

♪ Courage, elves, for bright daylight
Is with us to cast out the blight ♪

People who have shown up so far: Kitanna, me, Tar-Jêx, Aganzir, Loslote, Shasta, McCaber, Boro. (8)
We have yet to hear from: Farael, Sally, Rikae. (3)

That's better than I expected given that we're still on the first page.

Game rules and roles

Some of the roles in this game seem to be characterised by deliberate ambiguity, which adds a little more interest to it.

(1) Are there two wolves or three wolves? Our fair village consists only of eleven at present. A game of twelve would usually have three wolves and three gifted. However, the third gifted in this game is not a Hunter but a Lover. I find it reasonably plausible that there could be either two wolves or three in such a context. Oh well, that line of enquiry hasn't led me to a useful conclusion yet. Continuing on.

(2) What's up with the Lovers?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

The exact nature of the Lovers' relationship is a secret. You are free to speculate.

Well, that suggests that something is unusual there, but doesn't give any details. We already know that the Lovers can PM each other, at least.

Lovers usually appear to have an independent affiliation from the village. However, in this case one of them is also the Ranger. I assume the Lovers have the same affiliation as each other by default. I do find it implausible that there could be three wolves and also a pair of independent Lovers. Would the game balance be off if there were two wolves and independent Lovers? Hard to say, but not having the Ranger firmly on our side would still be harsh.

Also, I find it hard to believe that Amroth and Nimrodel would not be on the side of the elves of Lorien at least to begin with. The narration shows no hints that anything is amiss with our ruler, and the Lady Galadriel has promised to aid him.

ToDay so far

Kitanna: Believes that tea is never optional. Well, I also agree that in my view, tea is never optional. But I understand that some poor souls feel otherwise, and one must be considerate of them. Kit throws out some random-looking guesses. She brings up the possibility of joint-Cobbler Lovers. But it doesn't look like a serious suggestion the way she phrases it.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I feel like there's going to be more to it than that, why else would our moddess want it to be a secret? As to what could be involved? No idea. Maybe Nimrodel chooses who Amroth protects and he cannot protect her, but she can have him protect himself. Maybe the 2-3 wolves thing is a hint. If Nimrodel dies Amroth goes to the dark side or vice versa?

This looks like good speculation. An affiliation change after one of them dies could be a tricky enough thing to explain Nerwen's deliberate vagueness about both the roles.

And then Kitanna votes for Tar-Jêx, saying it is a random guess. Nothing she says there really looks suspicious. I can believe that if innocent she might have to resort to a random guess at this point of the game. But if she's not innocent then Tar-Jêx, who I believe is a first-time player, is a safe vote for her on Day 1.

Tar-Jêx: Post #17 looks the most interesting. They caution Kitanna against early guesses, then go ahead to make early guesses of their own. Tar also guesses that there are probably two wolves. The writing style doesn't seem villainous to me, but I can't rule out that Tar could be a scheming evil prodigy.

Aganzir: Is very energetic! And apparently rolled in here drunk.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

*licks lips* looking forward to that! I love when things come back to bite me.

Well, if Tar and Agan are both wolves, they're very bold ones with all that talk of biting. It does seem a bit unlikely.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Story-wise it would make sense that Amroth decides to abandon his people if he loses Nimrodel (ie her death kills them both)

Interesting. I had better look these things up. Anyway, Agan speculates that the wolf numbers could swing either way. What she's saying generally sounds pretty sensible. I'm not getting any innocent or guilty vibes.

Loslote: She contemplates that there might really be a cobbler around. That's fair enough. Then she says she'll have to vote soon, then she votes for Boro based on slight confusion and the elimination of people she'd rather not vote for. With so little to go on, it doesn't say much for her innocence or guilt.

Shasta: Has said next to nothing.
McCaber: Ditto.
Boromir Ditto.

I'm glad I don't have to vote for a while. But for first impressions, I don't think I'll be voting for Kitanna, especially as she's already left. For Tar-Jêx and Farael there are reasons to cut them some slack. Agan and Lottie don't seem particularly suspicious as of yet.

I'm going to be gone for a few hours to watch TV and eat dinner, but barring sudden disaster, I'll be back at least two hours before the deadline.

Edit: Crossed with Tar-Jêx.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Cop

Shasta: Has said next to nothing.

Shasta: has been at work all day. I'm sure I'll come up with something to say once I'm caught up on the thread (not that there's a whole heck of a lot to catch up on, considering we're still on page one).

[Shastanis Althreduin]

On the number of wolves - three seems a rather large number for a village of eleven. Two makes more sense to me, but it does seem a bit underpowered. Thinking about it, it seems like the fix would be to have some sort of evil-aligned role that's not a wolf, such as a Cobbler - however, as far as we know there's no Cobbler in this game.

I had a thought just now as I was typing this up - what if the lovers are Ranger/Cobbler? Story-wise it doesn't appear to make the most sense, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know the story all that well. Is Nimrodel a character that's at all likely to be Cobbler-esque? I throw out the speculation because my shining star is being so happily vague about roles this game, and having just two wolves on the evil side seems a bit weak.

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

On the number of wolves - three seems a rather large number for a village of eleven. Two makes more sense to me, but it does seem a bit underpowered. Thinking about it, it seems like the fix would be to have some sort of evil-aligned role that's not a wolf, such as a Cobbler - however, as far as we know there's no Cobbler in this game.

I had a thought just now as I was typing this up - what if the lovers are Ranger/Cobbler? Story-wise it doesn't appear to make the most sense, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know the story all that well. Is Nimrodel a character that's at all likely to be Cobbler-esque? I throw out the speculation because my shining star is being so happily vague about roles this game, and having just two wolves on the evil side seems a bit weak.

So far, the facts we know about the lovers are: Amroth is also a ranger and the nature of the relationship has been accentuated to arouse suspicion surrounding their roles.

I doubt that Amroth would also be a cobbler, because 3 roles seems far too many for one person. If they were to be lynched, it would take a lot of interest out of the game in one hit. However, the text about Nimrodel seems most intriguing. I am led to believe that Nimrodel has more than one objective, similar to Amroth's dual objective. 2 wolves is too few, but 3 is too many. A cobbler would fill this mid-space quite well, and could be Nimrodel's other role.

[McCaber]

Well, the old stories hold Nimrodel to be of the Nandor, who stalked these woods long before the arrival of the Noldor and Sindar. She believes us to be invaders; that we are throwing off the natural order and that we have no place here. I am not sure if she has werewolf blood in her, but I would not think she has our best interests at heart.

Alas, though, she has captured the heart of our prince Amroth, and I fear for those he is charged with protecting.

EDIT: Hang on, that's us, isn't it. FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU-

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by McCaber

Well, the old stories hold Nimrodel to be of the Nandor, who stalked these woods long before the arrival of the Noldor and Sindar. She believes us to be invaders; that we are throwing off the natural order and that we have no place here. I am not sure if she has werewolf blood in her, but I would not think she has our best interests at heart.

Alas, though, she has captured the heart of our prince Amroth, and I fear for those he is charged with protecting.

EDIT: Hang on, that's us, isn't it. FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU-

Even though he will likely be useless in our survival, if he gets lynched, that will still be annoying because we would have lost the only person (probably) with the ability to protect us from the wolves' attacks at night.

This discussion of the lovers is merely 1st page talk. It will accomplish nothing, as we will not be able to gather information, except by confession, about their goals.

Soon, the remaining elves shall speak, and from that, we must make a decision of who to lynch.

[McCaber]

Votes:

Kitanna -> TJ (1)
Lottie -> Boro (1)

That's a really small number for so close to deadline. That usually means that wolves will be able to influence the vote so they both survive Day 1, especially with how little discussion has taken place toDay.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by McCaber

Well, the old stories hold Nimrodel to be of the Nandor, who stalked these woods long before the arrival of the Noldor and Sindar. She believes us to be invaders; that we are throwing off the natural order and that we have no place here. I am not sure if she has werewolf blood in her, but I would not think she has our best interests at heart.

Alas, though, she has captured the heart of our prince Amroth, and I fear for those he is charged with protecting.

EDIT: Hang on, that's us, isn't it. FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU-

Hmm. That does sound relatively cobbler-ish, doesn't it? We might be dealing with a duo of opposed alignments (which we've seen before, although I don't remember precisely what enabled them to win as Lovers rather than just innocent or wolf - I might go back and see if I can find where that occurred.)

In any case, I'm about to drop off to sleep, so I need to vote. Going to look back and see if there's anything at all to go on - but I'll probably end up voting for someone who hasn't shown up yet (it can't have been too difficult to give everyone a poke that the game was starting, after all.)

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Tar-Jêx: Post #17 looks the most interesting. They caution Kitanna against early guesses, then go ahead to make early guesses of their own. Tar also guesses that there are probably two wolves. The writing style doesn't seem villainous to me, but I can't rule out that Tar could be a scheming evil prodigy.

Nothing wrong with acquiring a reputation for future games.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

And then Kitanna votes for Tar-Jêx, saying it is a random guess. Nothing she says there really looks suspicious. I can believe that if innocent she might have to resort to a random guess at this point of the game. But if she's not innocent then Tar-Jêx, who I believe is a first-time player, is a safe vote for her on Day 1.

This raises suspicion with Kitanna. I am unsure how much werewolf people have played, and have yet to learn reputations of people. If she is a cunning one, what you have suggested she may have done is probably a good guess.


Some people have been theorizing that if one of the lovers dies, the other will turn, however, in the 2nd last line of post #1, Amroth says that it is his duty to protect the realm, and the one he loves. It doesn't speak to me of Amroth focusing solely on the 'lovers' win condition, as he is the ranger. However, since he is a ranger and a lover, it is more than likely that he will use his power to protect Nimrodel, rather than a villager.
To quote Nerwen, 'Amroth (Ranger/Lover)– protects a player every Night. May not pick the same player twice in a row. May or may not be able to self-protect. (i.e. I’m not telling.)'
Seeing as he may be able to self protect, he could also ignore the lover goal and just focus on survival for himself.
I believe that since Amroth has two tasks, the ranger and the lover, Nimrodel may also have more than one task. 'Nimrodel (Lover)– The exact nature of the Lovers' relationship is a secret. You are free to speculate.'
Like Kitanna, I think that there is definitely something going on with the lovers. The lovers/cobblers combination doesn't seem too implausible if they have the ability to both die together.