"My friends, you bow to no one"

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The "You bow" line always seemed to me melodramatic, and unnecessary. Tolkien expressed the honour due to the Hobbits sublimely and adequately with the song at the Field of Cormallen, and Aragorn's simple bowing before Frodo and Sam before leading them to his makeshift throne. That's the trouble with so many movies. The makers assume one need to be beaten over the head with something before it's understood.

I think that wasn't melodramatic at all. As someone previously said, Aragorn's bow meant that hobbits did something that took courage of kings and warriors. The bow meant the world owes a lot to these four hobbits. Without their selfless efforts the War of the Ring would have turned out differently. That is true for both, books and the movies.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

I think that wasn't melodramatic at all. As someone previously said, Aragorn's bow meant that hobbits did something that took courage of kings and warriors. The bow meant the world owes a lot to these four hobbits. Without their selfless efforts the War of the Ring would have turned out differently. That is true for both, books and the movies.

It wasn't the gesture itself that was all that bad: it was the fact that dialogue was deemed necessary to hammer the point home. A simple, wordless bow would have been more effective.

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

It wasn't the gesture itself that was all that bad: it was the fact that dialogue was deemed necessary to hammer the point home. A simple, wordless bow would have been more effective.

Would you please elaborate why you think a wordless bow would have been effective?
IIRC, in the movie, first Frodo and Sam bow to Aragorn, the King. Moments later Merry & Pip do the same. That moment none of the hobbits were looking at the rest. How, do you think, without a word, things would have been fine? How would the hobbits know what is happening? And wouldn't this look rather silly? This way, we find out how humble these Hobbits are; and Aragorn has such a great respect for them. Not only because they are also the reason the world is safe, but because he loves them and respects them very much. "My friends, you bow to no one." This is why this scene in the movie, becomes so poignant.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

Would you please elaborate why you think a wordless bow would have been effective?
IIRC, in the movie, first Frodo and Sam bow to Aragorn, the King. Moments later Merry & Pip do the same. That moment none of the hobbits were looking at the rest. How, do you think, without a word, things would have been fine? How would the hobbits know what is happening? And wouldn't this look rather silly? This way, we find out how humble these Hobbits' are; and Aragorn has such a great respect for them. Not only because they are also the reason the world is safe, but because he loves them and respects them very much. "My friends, you bow to no one." This is why this scene in the movie, becomes so poignant.

I just think a bow, with a look into Frodo's eyes, would have been sufficient. In the book, all Aragorn did was to bow on one knee, take them to his throne, and say to all within hearing that they should be praised. That's quite enough.

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I just think a bow, with a look into Frodo's eyes, would have been sufficient. In the book, all Aragorn did was to bow on one knee, take them to his throne, and say to all within hearing that they should be praised. That's quite enough.

I think, I explained why all of it was important. There's nothing more to add. What you said is right, but PJ & co. were fine in that too.

[radagastly]

I have a general problem with most film dialogue in the first place. It adds some detail and exposition that would otherwise be absent, but it is rarely an improvement on the overall experience. That being said, much of Hollywood has become dependent on dialogue to fill creative gaps in their effort to tell a story through visual images alone. Not that there is no place for dialogue at all. If you're adapting Shakespeare, for example, it's very much about the beautiful language, and therefore it needs to be there. My objection is the substitution of dialogue for the more creative challenge of imparting the same feeling and information in silence. The best films are enjoyable and engaging even with the soundtrack turned off.
That being said, I don't think that "Praise them with great praise!" is any less hokey (or more hokey, for that matter) than "My friends, you bow to no one." But books are all about the words that they're made of, and film is about the moving visual image. A wordless bow, without the line, would have been more universally effective in a visual medium.

[Smaug's voice]

I like the scene in question too.
Probably one of the more touching scenes from the three films. Why I like it even more is because it is such a wonderful compression of the whole closure-of-Gondor arc in the book.
We see Elessar's crowning - and if I may say - Viggo suits the kingly Aragorn really well, even though I prefer his Strider.

We see the re-union of him and Arwen - and with the sweet choral playing in the back and the two looking at each other as if they haven't seen each other in ages - great touch. Even Elrond looks happy! :P Of course, I don't really think the kiss was necessary. Atleast not in the way it was done.

And finally, we see the hobbits getting their due recognition. I particularly like Viggo's delivery here of the concerned line. Which an average actor would have made it sound corny, as it is. I also like Frodo's expression. Visibly moved but also redundant, thinking that in the end he failed in his quest and did not deserve it.
I like the fact that Merry and Pippin were acknowledged as well. They after all did have one of the most significant impacts on the events - killing the Wiki, riding to Isengard, the Palantir (an accident, but still)

I would not have liked the inclusion of "Praise them with great praise!" song here, as while it reads great in the book, it would have been quite cheesy onscreen.


Also, I seem to be the only one, but I really like the bedroom-scene. Having them entering one-by-one is of course impractical but this is one of the cases where I can see what PJ means by "dramatic effect". I think the scene - a silent scene completely driven by music- was meant as a soothing balm, as a relaxation after the harrowing Cirith Ungol, and the torturing walk through Mordor along with the battles.

Besides Frodo's super-awkward laugh, I like everything about this scene - especially the Sam-Frodo look at the end with the Shire music.

[Inziladun]

I think one of my problems with that scene is that Viggo Mortensen is nothing near my idea of Aragorn. He doesn't impart sincerity with the words. Doubtless, many will disagree. No drama.

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by Smaug's voice

I like the scene in question too.
Probably one of the more touching scenes from the three films. Why I like it even more is because it is such a wonderful compression of the whole closure-of-Gondor arc in the book.
We see Elessar's crowning - and if I may say - Viggo suits the kingly Aragorn really well, even though I prefer his Strider.

We see the re-union of him and Arwen - and with the sweet choral playing in the back and the two looking at each other as if they haven't seen each other in ages - great touch. Even Elrond looks happy! :P Of course, I don't really think the kiss was necessary. Atleast not in the way it was done.

And finally, we see the hobbits getting their due recognition. I particularly like Viggo's delivery here of the concerned line. Which an average actor would have made it sound corny, as it is. I also like Frodo's expression. Visibly moved but also redundant, thinking that in the end he failed in his quest and did not deserve it.
I like the fact that Merry and Pippin were acknowledged as well. They after all did have one of the most significant impacts on the events - killing the Wiki, riding to Isengard, the Palantir (an accident, but still)

I would not have liked the inclusion of "Praise them with great praise!" song here, as while it reads great in the book, it would have been quite cheesy onscreen.


Also, I seem to be the only one, but I really like the bedroom-scene. Having them entering one-by-one is of course impractical but this is one of the cases where I can see what PJ means by "dramatic effect". I think the scene - a silent scene completely driven by music- was meant as a soothing balm, as a relaxation after the harrowing Cirith Ungol, and the torturing walk through Mordor along with the battles.

Besides Frodo's super-awkward laugh, I like everything about this scene - especially the Sam-Frodo look at the end with the Shire music.

Oh my God! I agree fully. Frodo's expressions? Yes, wonderful and powerful. The thing that we get from Tolkien's letters, PJ, thankfully, showed in the movie. Viggo as Aragorn? Obviously. He was perfect as Aragorn. I agree with the kiss thingy as well. I find that rather awkward, yes, the way it was done. In India, such aren't 'allowed'(but today movie-makers do that anyway. But I always find them weird and AVOIDE them). Bedroom scene? Yup! Liked that too. Frodo-Sam interaction was perfect. Sam comes with a look of "Mr. Frodo got his friends. Does he need me anymore?" And Frodo gives a smile, shows their friendship's strength. Sam's behaviour also reminds me of Tolkien's letter where he said that Sam loved Frodo but did not understand him much. The scene in the movie reflects that perfectly.