Not just a 'tender of beasts' : Radagast's connection to Slavic Mythology

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

The Czech version of Radegast, what we know of - mostly only from writings of Christian monks, much later than the cult itself actually bloomed, so the information again may be very much distorted or most of it not remembered anymore - is that he was supposed to have something to do with sun, harvest; possibly he was a solar deity. Or that is one theory.

The whole Slavic "cult" is based on the sun. All the "major" gods are directly connected to it, and quite many of the minor gods have something to do with it. But the whole major/minor thing depends on the geographic location. Since Radegast was more prominent in the West, I would not be surprised if there was more emphasis on his connection to the sun.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

The etymology G55 mentioned, with the meaning "council-guest" would actually be plausible in the Western Slavonic context, from rada (council) + host (guest), but it is a very, let's say, "fringe" interpretation. Also not certain why would the name of the god come from that in the first place.

The source said that he was an invisible guest at all councils. His presense somehow affected the outcome, I suppose.

[Inziladun]

My knowledge of Slavic mythology is roughly equal to my ability to estimate the distance between earth and the Kuiper Belt beyond Pluto: pretty much nil.

However, Radagast the Brown's Valinorean name was Aiwendil, said to mean "lover of birds", so maybe his Mannish name was a simple counterpart, with no ulterior symbolism by Tolkien. I think it comes down to the question of which came first, the names or the character.

[jallanite]

Yes Aiwendil might mean the same as Radagast. Or it might not.

Olórin and other names ascribed to Gandalf do not all mean Elf with the Wand. Olórin is usually considered to be probably related to the Quenya word olos (pl. olori) ‘dream, vision’, this meaning being fully discussed by Christopher Tolkien in his treatment of his father’s essay on “The Istari” in Unfinished Tales.

Saruman appears to be Old English of Mercian form meaning searu, saru ‘skill, cunning, cunning device’ + mann ‘man’, derived from his original Quenya name Curumo, and also a translation of his Sindarin name Curunír, taken as a name of approximately the same meaning, from Sindarin curu ‘skill’ + -ndîr ‘-man’. See note 6 to the essay “The Istari” in Unfinished Tales, which oddly has no reference in the text in my edition.

In short, Tolkien gives no indication of what Radagast is supposed to mean anywhere and arguing by analogy with the names Gandalf (or Mithrandir) and Saruman leads nowhere.

[Galin]

JRRT once noted that in the tongue of Numenor of old, Radagast (it was said) meant 'tender of beasts', but in a late note 'Radagast is said to be a name deriving from the Men of the Vales of Anduin, 'not now clearly interpretable'.


My guess is that the meaning of the Quenya name Aiwendil was not in play in both cases. And sometimes it can be difficult to say if a name is intended to be a substitution or not: Gandalf and Saruman are substitutions, and Incánus might seem to be another substitution by Tolkien as the fictive translator for example, but in another late note Tolkien at least considers a possible Quenya derivation, as he had considered earlier as well.

[jallanite]

Originally Posted by Galin

JRRT once noted that in the tongue of Numenor of old, Radagast (it was said) meant 'tender of beasts', but in a late note 'Radagast is said to be a name deriving from the Men of the Vales of Anduin, 'not now clearly interpretable'.

I had forgotten that, till your mention reminded me.

My guess is that the meaning of the Quenya name Aiwendil was not in play in both cases. And sometimes it can be difficult to say if a name is intended to be a substitution or not: Gandalf and Saruman are substitutions, and Incánus might seem to be another substitution by Tolkien as the fictive translator for example, but in another late note Tolkien at least considers a possible Quenya derivation, as he had considered earlier as well.

Apparently I was not clear in my intention. I see Gandalf and Mithrandir and other names given to Gandalf in various languages as unrelated to the Quenya name Olórin in meaning. While Saruman appears to be a translation of that wizard’s Quenya and Sindarin into Old English, presumably representing a form originally in true Rohirric.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by jallanite

Apparently I was not clear in my intention. I see Gandalf and Mithrandir and other names given to Gandalf in various languages as unrelated to the Quenya name Olórin in meaning. While Saruman appears to be a translation of that wizard’s Quenya and Sindarin into Old English, presumably representing a form originally in true Rohirric.

Okay. I'm not sure why you think you were unclear above though.


In the part of my post that you quoted (for your response here), I simply made a guess about the meaning of Aiwendil being in play or not, and next I made a new point about being able to certainly detect a 'translation' in all cases, giving Incanus as an example (Gandalf and Saruman being cases of translations for comparison to Incanus).

:shrug:

[Sarumian]

Russian Wiki contains the next relevant information on the matter:

Some contemporary scholars consider that there was no such a Slavonic deity as Radogost. Their opinion is based on the fact that the matter was first time mentioned by Thietmar von Merseburg, who reported that there was the town of Radogoshch (Radogoszcz, Radgosc) in the land of a Slavonic tribe Redarier (a tribe of Polabian Slavs), in which they had a cult of their main god Svarozhich (Svarožič). Later chroniclers and historians, it seems, used these data only. Half a century later Adam of Bremen writes, in turn, about the town of Redar and the god Redegast. Scholars regard that he made an error and confused the names of the deity, the town and the tribe, while the name Svarozhich is missing. It is known that Svarozhich is a deity's name, common among the Slavs. It is also known that there were many Slavonic names containing -gost, while Slavs did not give their children names after their gods. Besides this, many Western-Slavonic place names end with -gost. All this says that Radogost is a town name, that such a deity did not exist; it came out to be due to chroniclers' mistake only.

Places with name Radogoszcz or Радогощь

The song Svarog by a Russian rock-band Aquarium