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#1 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 435
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That also might explain why Sauron never made any attempts to make addional mortal/dwarven rings on his own. He made the One Ring from scratch himself so he had the skill, plus he had the original mortal and dwarven rings as protoypes so technically I don't see a reason he could not have done it (though it is also likely that the nature of the One Rings spell was such that it could only control those rings in existence at it's creation, not rings made after it; that you couldn't add more retroactively). Heck depending on how much of Celembrimbor's work Sauron was privy to; he might have known enough that, had he had the power and the spell allowed it, he could have made addional ELVEN rings, and see if he could find wearers among elves less "pure" than those who held the originals, or (if one of the theories is accurate) among particualry clever and loyal Orc captains.
It also occurs to me that extra mortal rings would have given Sauron an addional advantage beyond an unlimited number of wraiths, it could have given him an indefensible method of dealing with any and all opposition. As far as we know all of those who took the mortal rings did so willingly, but I'm not sure this is a prerequisite for the rings power and corruption to work. If he had unlimited mortal rings it would offer him the option of forcibly bonding anyone who was too much trouble to him. Capture the individual, force a ring on his finger and then either keep him chained up until the corruption did it's job or stab him through the heart with a Morgul blade (assuming my theories are correct and 1. the blade part of a Morgul knife can be replaced for additional uses (so they aren't quite as rare and valuable as they seem) and 2. If a Morgul knife is actually inserted DIRECTLY into the heart, wraithification occurs INSTANTLY). In short the amount of uses Sauron could have put additional rings or ring re-use to are so large it's is safe to assume that if he could have, he would have and that since he didn't he couldn't. |
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#2 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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#3 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 435
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All true. I never meant that I thought it did happen merely that, in a world where the ring supply was unlimited, Sauron might have attempted the experiment. It probably would take longer, but it mostly likey would happen in the end. Consider Frodo himself, as far as we can tell he did not "want" the power of the ring initially, but it did beat him down eventually. But I agree it might have taken a bit longer, perhaps too long in the case of simply waiting. Plus there is the matter of keeping the person alive until then (something tells me that Sauron's minions are probably not all that good at things like force feeding so unless Sauron was willing to expend addional power in keeping the individual alive a lot would probably simply starve themselves to death before succumbing. Plus, we are probably talking about a lot of people of Numenorian/Gondorian blood causing another problem with keeping them alive (I tend to interpret their ability to "give up life" as also allowing them to, in hopeless situations, simply WILL themselves to death.) So the "knife trick" would probably have to be real. But if it was then possibly forcible wraithification would have been possible and Sauron would had whole platoons of Nazgul "Poissible motto "Some are Born Wraith, Some Achieve Wraithness, and Some have Wraithness thrust upon them.
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#4 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Angband
Posts: 36
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Great reply's people, and I agree with what you have said here for the most part. Of course I wasn't saying that he could have re-distributed the rings, it was just an interesting idea that came to my mind. However I still think that there was some possibility of corrupting Ar-Pharazon with a ring of power that belonged to the Dwarves, if he had recovered any at this point?.
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Then Sauron laughed: 'Patience! Not long shall ye abide. But first a song I will sing to you, to ears intent.' Then his flaming eyes he on them bent, and darkness black fell round them all. |
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#5 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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I think there are other reasons too that would have held Sauron back from trying to turn a Númenórean king. For one thing, it really wasn't necessary to do that to Ar-Pharazôn. He was for all practical purposes a puppet ruler when Sauron was in Númenor, and when Sauron already had that sort of control, using one of the precious Rings would have been overkill. More importantly though, Sauron might not have wanted the masses in Númenor seeing what the end product of the wraith-process really entailed. It might have frightened them enough to have turned them off their path in which they strove for immortality. My thought of that is that the state of the Nazgûl was actually what immortality was for a mortal. They could not get new life, only a lengthening of what they had already, and seeing that displayed openly in the figure of their king might have led to some serious soul-searching which could have derailed Sauron's plans.
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#6 | |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Angband
Posts: 36
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Yeah I guess you are right, Iziladun. Sauron probably wouldnt have recovered any of 'The 7' by this time, and he would not have been able to to determine their effects on the wearers.
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Then Sauron laughed: 'Patience! Not long shall ye abide. But first a song I will sing to you, to ears intent.' Then his flaming eyes he on them bent, and darkness black fell round them all. |
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#7 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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Just to briefly revive this thread if I may, I noticed the following when doing a bit of reading for another thread the other day, from Akallabêth as Sauron laughs in the temple at the departure of Ar-Pharazôn:
"and a third time, even as he laughed at his own thought, thinking what he would do now in the world, being rid of the Edain for ever" This would put it fairly plainly in my view that Sauron quite determinedly did not want to rule the Númenoréans - he wanted to exterminate them. Not necessarily the most practical course of action, but Sauron was a very evil being, and surely sheer hatred must at times have trumped reason, especially regarding those enemies who had obstructed his plans and humiliated him.
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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