Saruman's Words to Gandalf and Galadriel

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Maybe his former knowledge, or his former greatness, or his "maiarity". But whatever he predicts, he does so truthfully, though he may twist it somewhat to the negative side. He lies somewhat, but not in his foretelling.

I think Saruman simply is, after all, Wise (however foolish he had become). He simply sees the reality, because he knows the reality on a deeper level than an average mortal. On top of that, he also knows it already on the existential level (in contrary to Hobbits, who are at that point still happy and with the prospect of happy lives at home): he has lost everything and thinks that what he is experiencing now (the homelessness after destruction of Orthanc, for instance) will happen also to Galadriel and Gandalf (the homelessness after e.g. Lórien fades out, and nobody has any more need of Grey Pilgrim's counsel).

Originally Posted by nikkolas

Saruman was decidedly unstable by this point but the underlined passage seems significant. What does he mean that the Elves and everyone doomed themselves by overthrowing him?

I think it definitely does not mean that they doomed themselves by overthrowing him. By "you pulled down your own house when you destroyed mine", I think Saruman simply refers to the fact that while they made him lose everything, at the same time Gandalf and Galadriel have lost everything too. It is not a causative sentence, it is simply finding his own malicious bit of happiness in the fact that he isn't the only one whose time of power is over. The main point being, Saruman speaks a lot about his experience from the Ring-lore ("I did not spend long study on these matters for naught") - knowing that with the destruction of the One, all the Rings lose their power, the Dominion of Men comes, and the Wizards or Elves aren't going to remain in Middle-Earth.

As an addendum, I would also say that I think Saruman also wants to, somehow in the manner of a bitter politician who had lost his elections badly, throw into Gandalf and Galadriel's face the fact that "you ruined our country's bright future which I might have brought, had you joined me." So, "look you fools, you could have wielded all the power in the world, kept the Elves ruling Middle-Earth with the Ring and with everything you would have wanted, and you have thrown it all away". It is simply all over again the old argument of Boromir's, "why do we speak of throwing away and destroying the Ring? Why not use it?" Saruman does not see the hope, he only sees the loss - in that way, you could call him "a blind pessimist". In fact, I think he deserves that title the most of all, he is the "man with tunnel vision" no.1 - he exhibits these signs already by refusing coming down to Gandalf even when offered mercy.