Unfinished Tales - Part Three - I - The Disaster of the Gladden Fields - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 03-19-2013, 05:08 PM

... actually as late as 1870.

http://personal.ashland.edu/~jmoser1/sedan.htm

alatar · 08-24-2013, 08:07 PM

I too had fallen into the 'PJ' movies are from source material' pit.

Now rereading the UT after a long time, I find Isildur quite reasonable. His flight even makes more sense than the silliness depicted in the movie. Though briefly depicted, you can kinda feel his pain as he leaves his son(s) behind.

And as Esty has noted, I found the battle formations interesting and realistic.

Belegorn · 08-25-2013, 01:06 AM

The last thing any prince wants to do is to have some captain have all the glory. That's the way to get himself ousted by said captain. Princes should always learn the art of war. Some of the French kings were not the greatest, well at least in some periods around the plague era, like when the English King captured the French King.

Tuor in Gondolin · 08-25-2013, 06:38 AM

As I'm rereading UT now, it's remarkable how much JRRT improved on Isildur in his later writings on him and the Gladdeen Fields, unlike PJ's cartoonish guy, in the movie getting lucky taking out Sauron and his almost Snidely Whiplash leering in deciding to keep the Ring and cheerfully abandon his men.

Projecting an alternate world where Isildur did throw in the Ring what happens? A more solid North Kingdom, with isildur and his older sons surviving. And what happens with the elves. Presumably the Three Rings lose their power at once. No propped up Lothlorien. And there's still the problem of the majority of Men in the east and South, corrupted by Sauron.

Belegorn · 08-25-2013, 06:45 PM

I would think like Aragorn to some degree Isildur would have to deal with the remnants of the enemie's forces and have various, "expeditions against enemies in the East" [Letter 244]. Of course, the Dúnedain were more numerous in that period compared to the very few remnants left in Aragorn's time. Things might be a bit easier with a power like Sauron gone for the Númenóreans.

I'd suppose the Elves would leave over a period of time, excepting the dark Elves.

03-19-2013, 05:08 PM	#1
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	... actually as late as 1870. http://personal.ashland.edu/~jmoser1/sedan.htm __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

08-24-2013, 08:07 PM	#2
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	I too had fallen into the 'PJ' movies are from source material' pit. Now rereading the UT after a long time, I find Isildur quite reasonable. His flight even makes more sense than the silliness depicted in the movie. Though briefly depicted, you can kinda feel his pain as he leaves his son(s) behind. And as Esty has noted, I found the battle formations interesting and realistic. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

08-25-2013, 01:06 AM	#3
Belegorn Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien Posts: 462	The last thing any prince wants to do is to have some captain have all the glory. That's the way to get himself ousted by said captain. Princes should always learn the art of war. Some of the French kings were not the greatest, well at least in some periods around the plague era, like when the English King captured the French King. __________________ "For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche

08-25-2013, 06:38 AM	#4
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	As I'm rereading UT now, it's remarkable how much JRRT improved on Isildur in his later writings on him and the Gladdeen Fields, unlike PJ's cartoonish guy, in the movie getting lucky taking out Sauron and his almost Snidely Whiplash leering in deciding to keep the Ring and cheerfully abandon his men. Projecting an alternate world where Isildur did throw in the Ring what happens? A more solid North Kingdom, with isildur and his older sons surviving. And what happens with the elves. Presumably the Three Rings lose their power at once. No propped up Lothlorien. And there's still the problem of the majority of Men in the east and South, corrupted by Sauron. __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

08-25-2013, 06:45 PM	#5
Belegorn Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien Posts: 462	I would think like Aragorn to some degree Isildur would have to deal with the remnants of the enemie's forces and have various, "expeditions against enemies in the East" [Letter 244]. Of course, the Dúnedain were more numerous in that period compared to the very few remnants left in Aragorn's time. Things might be a bit easier with a power like Sauron gone for the Númenóreans. I'd suppose the Elves would leave over a period of time, excepting the dark Elves. __________________ "For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously!" - G.S.; F. Nietzsche