Unfinished Tales - Part Three - I - The Disaster of the Gladden Fields

[Faramir Jones]

Welcome to the Downs, Saurondil!

I certainly agree with you and the others that this story gives Isildur more depth as a character, something I was glad about when I first finished reading it. He now realises that he was wrong to keep the Ring, and believes that one of the keepers of the Three Rings would be a better guardian of it.

I particularly liked the depiction of Elendur, Isildur's eldest son, and the fact that Aragorn II was held by those who knew the former to greatly resemble him.

The depiction of Meneldil was particularly interesting; because his character, combined with the death of Isildur and his three eldest sons, explains the beginning of the division between Gondor and Arnor. While Meneldil might have accepted his uncle as overlord, he was unlikely to have so accepted his cousin Valandil, a minor, younger than him, and born in Middle-earth; so he would have behaved as an independent ruler. As Arnor declined and Gondor increased in power and influence, Meneldil's descendants and successors would have continued this policy.

[Saurondil]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

Welcome to the Downs, Saurondil!

I certainly agree with you and the others that this story gives Isildur more depth as a character, something I was glad about when I first finished reading it. He now realises that he was wrong to keep the Ring, and believes that one of the keepers of the Three Rings would be a better guardian of it.

I particularly liked the depiction of Elendur, Isildur's eldest son, and the fact that Aragorn II was held by those who knew the former to greatly resemble him.

The depiction of Meneldil was particularly interesting; because his character, combined with the death of Isildur and his three eldest sons, explains the beginning of the division between Gondor and Arnor. While Meneldil might have accepted his uncle as overlord, he was unlikely to have so accepted his cousin Valandil, a minor, younger than him, and born in Middle-earth; so he would have behaved as an independent ruler. As Arnor declined and Gondor increased in power and influence, Meneldil's descendants and successors would have continued this policy.

## TY for the welcome

I thought it was a shame that one of Isildur's three elder sons could not have been spared - as (say) the third man to escape the slaughter with Ohtar & Estelmo. Tolkien can be quite pitiless in killing off his characters. (I also wanted to Hurin to escape, after all Morgoth put him through - but no...) That point about Meneldil is good - I never thought of the separation coming about like that.

[Faramir Jones]

Originally Posted by Saurondil

## TY for the welcome

I thought it was a shame that one of Isildur's three elder sons could not have been spared - as (say) the third man to escape the slaughter with Ohtar & Estelmo. Tolkien can be quite pitiless in killing off his characters. (I also wanted to Hurin to escape, after all Morgoth put him through - but no...) That point about Meneldil is good - I never thought of the separation coming about like that.

At least he's honest. Like you, I was saddened, although I realised that in those days monarchs and their heirs really did lead their troops into battle, with the consequent risks of death, injury or capture. Even in real life, King George II of Great Britain and Ireland led his troops into battle as late as 1743:

[William Cloud Hicklin]

... actually as late as 1870.

http://personal.ashland.edu/~jmoser1/sedan.htm

[alatar]

I too had fallen into the 'PJ' movies are from source material' pit.

Now rereading the UT after a long time, I find Isildur quite reasonable. His flight even makes more sense than the silliness depicted in the movie. Though briefly depicted, you can kinda feel his pain as he leaves his son(s) behind.

And as Esty has noted, I found the battle formations interesting and realistic.

[Belegorn]

The last thing any prince wants to do is to have some captain have all the glory. That's the way to get himself ousted by said captain. Princes should always learn the art of war. Some of the French kings were not the greatest, well at least in some periods around the plague era, like when the English King captured the French King.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

As I'm rereading UT now, it's remarkable how much JRRT improved on Isildur in his later writings on him and the Gladdeen Fields, unlike PJ's cartoonish guy, in the movie getting lucky taking out Sauron and his almost Snidely Whiplash leering in deciding to keep the Ring and cheerfully abandon his men.

Projecting an alternate world where Isildur did throw in the Ring what happens? A more solid North Kingdom, with isildur and his older sons surviving. And what happens with the elves. Presumably the Three Rings lose their power at once. No propped up Lothlorien. And there's still the problem of the majority of Men in the east and South, corrupted by Sauron.