Game Thread - WW XCIIX - The Meaning Of Death

[Brinniel]

Pom earlier discusses her disapproval of Nerwen and me not wanting to spread out the lynch candidates and I don't like how she jumped to conclusions (saying several people pushed aside their suspicion of Morsul to vote Eomer instead...you can have multiple suspects, you know). However, I'm not sure that's cause for her to be a baddie. And I wouldn't think a baddie would feel the need to be so forceful in her opinions at this point.

If Pom is innocent, I could see as a prime target for a baddie to try to get her lynched. After all, she directs some suspicion toward a now known innocent and makes some illogical statements. That could easily give reason for someone to vote her. Plus, she won't be around for the rest of toDay, so she can't even defend herself from suspicion. So yeah, I might watch those attempting to bandwagon against her. So far that would be Inzil and Morsul.

Of course, this would all be invalid if Pom is in fact a baddie. But regardless, I'd rather not vote for her because I would like to hear from her more toMorrow.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Pomegranate

#28 - Posts about what Amandil and Elendil should do. Sides with an Amandil reveal and random lists Day 1. This -

Originally Posted by Pom

And just in case - if a KM decides to do a fake-reveal, Amandil, at least counter that! Otherwise we're stuck with a lot of problematicly full trust to a KM, and potentially to a chain of people after that.

-strikes me as odd and I'm not sure why, unless it's just that a KM revealing as Amandil that day would have been incredibly suicidal.

#31 - more about dream lists.

#34 - defends him/herself to Inzil. This -

Originally Posted by Pom

There is a reason why I haven't posted a list yet, that's because I don't want everyone to just jump blindly in

- confuses me; what harm was there at this point in time to actually doing what you wanted everyone else to do, post a list? This almost looks overly concerned with wanting to go with whatever the majority wants.

#38 - more about dreams.

#45 - wants to vote. I agree.

#75 - finally posts list.

#84 - posts a feeling-list about everyone. Is pretty noncommittal about everyone except Nerwen and Inzil. The interesting part to me is that Pom says [/b]Inzil[/b] looks too "explanatory", basing part of this on this quote by Inzil -

Originally Posted by Inzil

All right. I'm just looking for holes in this deal, before everyone just jumps in.

- which looks eerily like something Pom him/herself said earlier. This brand of hypocrisy always makes me raise an eyebrow.

#191 - This bit, I'm bothered by.

Originally Posted by Pom

Votes: Brinniel and Nerwen made points on not adding new people to the voting. I'll need to check the times, but I don't like that point - if you don't believe anyone on the voting list is a KM, it's better to (potentially) lose a vote than to vote an innocent. And if you do, why keep mentioning that you only vote within the already-voted, since you'd then have other things to say as well.

It's actually pretty acceptable to not spread out votes late in the day; any baddies that have saved their votes have that much more control of the lynch. Also, this is before phantom mentioned he'd dreamed of Brinn.

#193 - reiterates suspicion of not wanting to bring in a new candidate for lynch close to DL.

#195 - this is the second time Pom has mentioned people suspecting Morsul but voting Eomer.

#197 - explains him/herself to Nerwen (and backtracks a bit?) Thinks if Boro was killed for being dangerous, then the KMs should have rightly gone for phantom.

#208 - states intention to vote for one of the later Eomwer-voters in general, and Sally in particular. Seems to be mostly because Sally suspected Morsul earlier, and Pom thinks she's just jumping on other people's suspicions. But didn't Sally suspect Morsul yesterday too? Something to look into.

#209 - considers Eonwe to be much less suspicious than Sally.

#210 - votes Sally.



Conclusions -

There's definitely something weird there. I'll need to go back and see what Sally has said, but it seemed to me that Pom was pushing her a bit hard on not really much. In addition, I feel like his Day 1 vote for Inzil was based on a double standard. I wouldn't be opposed to lynching him today, but I do want to look at some other people.

[Inziladun]

I have to leave for a bit, and should have time to consider the vote.

I do think either Sally or Steve could well be evil. Of the two, Sally has been pretty sensible it seems the past few hours, so of the twain I'd prefer Steve as the better bet. Like I said though, I wouldn't be opposed to Pom either.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Sally

#51 - banter.

#88 - It's always hard to tell what's banter with Sally, but she makes a point about Eomer here -

Originally Posted by Sally

Eomer, your three theoretical guilty parties are all young lads and yet, instead of voting for one of them, you attempt to sink your noose into the neck of a wee lass whose only apparent crime is saying hello? You hooligan. A pox on you and possibly your king.

A wrong point, as it turns out, but she did have at least a reason to vote Eomer.

#93 - weighs in on Isildur possibly using his power today - is vehemently against it.

#94 - hopes Inzil is all right.

#99 - agrees with Phantom about Morsul -

Originally Posted by Sally

I'm equally hesitant to believe any defense that is based off alleged naivete.

#110 - banter.

#114 - banter.

#116 - suspicious of Morsul being suspicious of Sally for being suspicious of him.

#118 - replies to Phantom, letting him know Eonwe is often lynched first.

#121 - banter.

#131 - Votes Eomer, after replying to Morsul. Hmm.

Originally Posted by Sally

The problem I have with this is that you didn't deny my "accusation" of you just trying to save your own skin.

However, given Eomer's flip flop about not voting (and then voting me, of all the scandalous notions), I believe I'll have to choose him over Morsul; it's simply too risky to spread the vote so close to deadline.

The problem I have with this is, okay, Morsul didn't specifically deny trying to save himself (by suspecting you). ...So? Whether he did or didn't is immaterial, considering how much weight saying so would carry (read: none.) Also, I can buy not spreading the votes so close to deadline, but had you even looked at any of the other possible lynch candidates? I'm sorry, Sally, but your vote does kind of look opportunistic.

#139 - banter.

#153 - flirtatious banter.

#178 - banter and rule clarification.

#184 - analyzes Morsul and comes up actually suspecting him. I have to say, I agree with a lot of what Sally says here. However... it is Morsul...

#187 - mentions Manwe and Eonwe - noncommittal on both.

#189 - states the obvious.

#217 - this is another post that makes a lot of sense. Darn it, Sally.

#223 - banter, and a post that early-days Lottie would have been all over.

#227 - clarification.

#232 - "who I will vote for" list. Still thinks Pom, Morsul, and Eonwe look most suspicious - this is what she's been saying all along, so points for consistency.



Conclusions -

Sally started off neutral, then dipped into "suspicious", but climbed out of that and rose into my "innocent" zone. However, I'd still like to hear from her regarding her Day 1 vote for Eomer and why she didn't even mention any other candidates.

[Morsul the Dark]

I've been trying to figure out if Pom Is indeed evil what would defending me get him?

I think it's a reach But here goes: Pom defends me votes Sally I being inclined to help him because of his defense vote Sally try to get others to do the same. Sally lynched innocent. Day three I get set up as a fall guy lynched innocent finally day four Pom lynched. that would give potentially 4 more deaths before a KM is gone.

I think I'm leaning Pom right now but waiting to see more from others.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I've been trying to figure out if Pom Is indeed evil what would defending me get him?

I think it's a reach But here goes: Pom defends me votes Sally I being inclined to help him because of his defense vote Sally try to get others to do the same. Sally lynched innocent. Day three I get set up as a fall guy lynched innocent finally day four Pom lynched. that would give potentially 4 more deaths before a KM is gone.

I think I'm leaning Pom right now but waiting to see more from others.

How do you know Sally is innocent?

[Morsul the Dark]

I don't I'm assuming If Pom is Evil Sally is innocent if Pom is innocetn I think Sally is evil.

Sorry, I thought it was clear it was hypothetical.

I just think Sally is putting too much effort into suspecting me as a KM to be one. I tend to end up lynching myself at some point so I don't think she'd need that much effort to frame me

[Brinniel]

Known Innocent:
Brinn
Phantom
Shasta

Feeling Good About:
Lottie - Her defense of Pom makes me feel better about her. I don't think she would so obviously defend her if they were both evil. And if Pom's innocent, why defend her when she could potentially be an easy lynch?
Sally - In general she seems okay and has given me no reason to suspect her. Her suspicion of Pom seems more genuine compared to others; for one thing, it's understandable for an innocent to automatically feel suspicious of someone who votes against them. I was wavering on placing Sally in the not sure category, but for now I'm more inclined to think her innocent.

Not Sure:
Manwe - I haven't heard enough from him to get an idea about which side he might be on.
Nerwen - I have no vibes on her right now.
Eonwe - I've seen people make points against him and perhaps he has made a few iffy comments. But at this point, I really can't tell whether he may be good or evil.

Watching:
Pom - She's on my watch list because I can see a possibility of her being evil, but I won't vote for her toDay for the reasons I stated previously.

Suspicious:
Inzil - His suspicions against Pom feel like they could be fabricated.
Morsul - Same as Inzil, plus he keeps making slips as others have pointed out. While I have seen innocents make many suspicious slips, it could be just as easily a sloppy KM.

[Mänwe]

I've been having a look over the voters who made Sally and Eomer their choice of lynch a number of whom have since been revealed as innocent which obviously sets them aside from our suspicions. But the battle between Sally, Morsul and Pom has been the liveliest really and coming away from another read through it just seems all typical early day back and forth.

Morsul starts out from #17 and until around #78, his posts are largely banter and stating his like for the phantoplan and dislike for an Isildur reveal. Mirroring what others were thinking.

His vote in #112 is also based on what someone else had said- namely phantom, and Sally is his choice also because its a gut feeling, he isn't confident enough by his vague suspicion of Nerwen. Thus Sally's votes are doubled. A relatively safe vote..and typical for Day 1. #124 is the beginning of the sparring between him and Sally, his jokey sounding defense of his vote for her.

Initially striking me as not all that evil but the content of his posts just aren't saying anything which in turn to me suggests flying beneath the radar.

His reaction to a Boro kill is relief= #141 that Eomer wasn't Elendil, and no doubt that he hadn't voted Eomer at all. As those who had might reasonably come under scrutiny. Then follows an odd passage of posts that see him muddle the roles/rules and a few times he can be seen to be waiting for someone else to post and only then to respond. #207 states he still only has suspicions and is still wondering.

He then picks up his suspicion briefly of Nerwen #213 and reiterates shes too clean. Then has to deal with more flak from Sally about his suspicions and supposed relation with Pom. His next post #225 is then to state he's looking into Pom but only finds something interesting, before in #231 he reiterates the flavour of a number of his posts- he has no inkling of who to vote for.

#245 is leaning now toward Pom, think he's getting sick of you Sally :P

Like Shasta, its all wishy washy. And it's been ever present, so he's one of those id consider voting for.

I was doing Sally too but Shasta has been very efficient- but my stance on her at the moment is innocence. So I won't be voting for her.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Mänwe

His reaction to a Boro kill is relief= .

Won't argue against your other interpretations though I disagree with them
This point however is incorrect. I was initially relieved that Boro and Eomer were not Erendil something I thought true at that time. We think Boro was most likely Erendil afterall.

Also I did wait for others to post because I didn't want to double and triple post throughout the day.

[Mänwe]

Fair enough, it was the wording that made me raise my eyebrow when I read it the first time but for sake of putting thoughts to paper I included it. This Sally, Pom, banter could do with a dream.

[Nerwen]

Hello again– and sorry for lack of participation. I just haven't been able to get online.