New trailer for 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey'

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Yes, the Goblin thing is probably not what you'd expect after reading The Hobbit, though it's perfectly in tune with British humour. Which is what I'm arguing - that's not specifically American humour so to use that argument against it is a straw man

Well firstly, of course if it came down to that, one could say that there isn't really anything like a "British" or "American" humour, really. At least I, being a very strong opponent of all generalisations, would argue that. This kind of jokes like falling goblin is present everywhere and it is just a certain kind of humour. However, why I think these generalisations can be used (when we aren't making them a set fact) is that the major, mainstream or most famous movies (since we are speaking about movies and TV) coming from these countries, at least lately, tend to have this particular type of humour in them more than elsewhere. Or: it is more distinct in comparison to others. That's not to say you can't have an "American" joke in a British movie or vice versa, and anyway I am not claiming to be an expert on the British humour (I can't be), but there are some prevailing things that seem to be a British "speciality", if you wish. Simply put, when you are observing from the outside, you say: "Well this is the kind of humour others really don't have so much".

But this is all a sort of meta-discussion. The basic point being, and you said that, the Goblin thing is not in tune with the Hobbit. And for me, not even the sled - from what I have seen. But truth be told, we haven't seen very much yet. Heck, it's a three minute trailer (and on top of that, very probably made to contain the scenes aiming at certain kind of audience).

(and I am sick and fed up with the rest of the world assuming all our comedy is twee Richard Curtis stuff when that comprises about 0.001% of it).

Huh, I had to even look up who Richard Curtis is. On wikipedia. (Tells something about me, I know. ) But apart from Mr. Bean, if you are thinking that when somebody says "British humour", I imagine Love Actually or such, then that's certainly wrong. I was never thinking of anything of that sort, for sure.

Well average is what you hear from Fili and Kili. From one line I've no inkling of which of the dozens of northern accents they're trying to do, but it sounds fairly normal to me. As does Ian McKellen, who still retains his accent. And Sean Bean, who failed to disguise his as Boromir. Richard Armitage also retains his normal voice which is generic East Midlands - gently northern sounding, not as rich as say Sean Bean's.

No, it's average accent of something. Since I am an outsider, let me say how I hear it (but of course many outsiders' experiences would tell you differently, based on their expertise in English): Ian McKellen has "normal English". Likewise I think Sean Bean. These Dwarven guys have an accent, however, and that's it.

My personal observation, of course. I think it may show how differently things can be perceived (Even more so if some other foreigner told you something even completely different.) This movie is of course English (American-British-whatever), though being such an international blockbuster as it definitely is aiming to be, there will be certainly many non-native English speakers in the audience, and some may have similar impression to mine. Anyway, I wasn't here to argue that my point was in any way "right", I simply said what I think, and that is that I don't like the accent the way these guys say it.

[radagastly]

Originally posted by Legate:

Anyway, I wasn't here to argue that my point was in any way "right", I simply said what I think, and that is that I don't like the accent the way these guys say it.

Here in the U.S I have a good friend that feels the same way. Whether the accent is Irish, Scottish or Welsh, to him, they all sound "fake" or "pretentious," over the top scenery chewing. He hated Billy Boyd's accent despite my telling him that's just the way he talks. I think (in his case) that it's because these accents have a lilt to them, a musicality lacking in the more "generic" versions of spoken English. This gives these accents a theatrical quality that seems almost deliberate, like these actors are trying too hard to enhance the attention they get out of their part. Personally, I like it, though if it really was deliberate, I probably wouldn't.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But this is all a sort of meta-discussion. The basic point being, and you said that, the Goblin thing is not in tune with the Hobbit. And for me, not even the sled - from what I have seen. But truth be told, we haven't seen very much yet. Heck, it's a three minute trailer (and on top of that, very probably made to contain the scenes aiming at certain kind of audience).

Well indeed! I think much of the criticism can't be levelled at it yet (even if it's going to be levelled at all) because all we've seen are some trailers and we all know that trailers are basically adverts aimed at specific people.

I'm convinced that the rabbit sled is going to work. At first I was "Whaaaat?" But then I thought about how 'wacky' The Hobbit actually is and I think as far as invention goes, it may well be a good one. It's rather like the Olympic opening ceremony, which sounded like it was going to be either "so bad, it's good" or "carcrash", either way it would be worth seeing - and it turned out to be a work of insane genius.

Huh, I had to even look up who Richard Curtis is. On wikipedia. (Tells something about me, I know. ) But apart from Mr. Bean, if you are thinking that when somebody says "British humour", I imagine Love Actually or such, then that's certainly wrong. I was never thinking of anything of that sort, for sure.

Thank goodness! I can't begin to tell you how terminally embarrassed I am by some of the stuff that 'represents' British culture that gets exported.

No, it's average accent of something. Since I am an outsider, let me say how I hear it (but of course many outsiders' experiences would tell you differently, based on their expertise in English): Ian McKellen has "normal English". Likewise I think Sean Bean. These Dwarven guys have an accent, however, and that's it.

I'm beginning to think that they may be aiming for actual 'regional' accents for the different Dwarves, as James Nesbitt has retained his Ulster accent, whereas Aidan Turner doesn't seem to be using his native Irish, and it would be very easy (to non-British ears) to pass them off as sounding like they came from the same region. Though knowing both actors, the former probably can't hide his, it's so strong, but the latter has proved to be skilled at it.

Originally Posted by radagastly

Here in the U.S I have a good friend that feels the same way. Whether the accent is Irish, Scottish or Welsh, to him, they all sound "fake" or "pretentious," over the top scenery chewing. He hated Billy Boyd's accent despite my telling him that's just the way he talks. I think (in his case) that it's because these accents have a lilt to them, a musicality lacking in the more "generic" versions of spoken English. This gives these accents a theatrical quality that seems almost deliberate, like these actors are trying too hard to enhance the attention they get out of their part. Personally, I like it, though if it really was deliberate, I probably wouldn't.

I have been known to lay on my accent with a trowel if it gains me an advantage. And a Lancashire accent has plenty of rhoticity and 'singing'. So I think I know what this 'theatrical element' is

[Kath]

I have to say that I love the fact that most of the actors are being allowed to keep their usual accents for their roles. I had feared that, having had Gimli be so overtly Scottish in LotR, all the Dwarves would be required to have Scottish accents in The Hobbit. To hear a mix of voices from the length of the country is lovely! That said, if you are going to cast James Nesbitt you are just going to have to accept the Irish accent.

With Fili and Kili - is one of the actors playing them naturally Northern? Because in that case it makes sense for Aiden Turner to use a northern accent than to get the other chap to try an Irish one. Most people trying to do Irish just sound appalling.

[Mithalwen]

They showed the trailer at the Hobbit thing Lalaith and I went to on Friday night. As you might expect it looked better on the big screen but it still disturbs me what Radagast is doing to than hedgepig....

As for accents ..as long as those playing brothers have the same one ... it bugged me that they went to the trouble to get actors who looked plausible to play Sean Bean's father and brother and then let them have completely different accents, they might as well have let them speak their native Strine.. Unless it was meant to be a joke like Daphne's brothers in Frasier.

[radagastly]

Originally posted by Kath:

With Fili and Kili - is one of the actors playing them naturally Northern? Because in that case it makes sense for Aiden Turner to use a northern accent than to get the other chap to try an Irish one. Most people trying to do Irish just sound appalling.

Originally posted by Mithalwen:

As for accents ..as long as those playing brothers have the same one ... it bugged me that they went to the trouble to get actors who looked plausible to play Sean Bean's father and brother and then let them have completely different accents, they might as well have let them speak their native Strine.. Unless it was meant to be a joke like Daphne's brothers in Frasier.

Aiden Turner (Kili) is from Ireland. Dean O'Gorman (Fili) is from New Zealand. I guess we'll just have to wait until December to hear what happens with their accents. I hope I remember to listen. It's not really a high priority to me. As long as it's not too jarring.

[Ninde Lossehelin]

I am so so so excited. Personally, I liked this trailer better because..... wait never mind.. i love them both

[William Cloud Hicklin]

If the makers wanted to take Tolkien at his word, they's give all the Dwarves a slight Yiddish accent.... but I doubt that would be politically possible.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Kath

I have to say that I love the fact that most of the actors are being allowed to keep their usual accents for their roles. I had feared that, having had Gimli be so overtly Scottish in LotR, all the Dwarves would be required to have Scottish accents in The Hobbit. To hear a mix of voices from the length of the country is lovely! That said, if you are going to cast James Nesbitt you are just going to have to accept the Irish accent.

With Fili and Kili - is one of the actors playing them naturally Northern? Because in that case it makes sense for Aiden Turner to use a northern accent than to get the other chap to try an Irish one. Most people trying to do Irish just sound appalling.

I always think Gimli's Scots accent is terrible, my own attempt at doing Mrs Goggins from Postman Pat is better He sounds Welsh.

Maybe they have simply gone for an accent that both actors could 'do'? Because yes, it annoyed me when family members in LotR had different accents. It annoyed me enough that all four of the main Hobbits sounded different - especially as The Shire just isn't big enough to allow for that.

[jallanite]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

It annoyed me enough that all four of the main Hobbits sounded different - especially as The Shire just isn't big enough to allow for that.

See the comments by dialect coach Andrew Jack on the rationale used in the accents in The Lord of the Rings film at http://www.andrewjack.com/lord-of-th...-rationale.htm .

They generally used a Gloucestershire accent, giving to Sam a rural form of the accent and to Frodo and Bilbo one closer to RP. Merry’s accent was between the two. Pippin was given a Scottish accent because it was found that having the actor Billy Boyd do a laid-back Gloucestershire accent just didn’t work for him so they rationalized his natural Scottish accent as a Tookland accent.

What four accents did you hear?