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#1 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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Thanks for that link, davem. I think the interview explains a great deal about the reasoning the Estate might have in being so mulishly opposed to third-party uses of Tolkien's work. Yes, there are probably instances in which permission to use the character names and likenesses could be harmlessly granted, but I can sympathize with the desire to simply throw out the wheat along with the chaff, especially when it seems likely the latter is much more ubiquitous.
CT also expresses very clearly, much better than I ever have, the problem with the PJ movies. Quote:
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#2 | |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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The works would have fallen out of copyright at some point anyway, so once a successful adaptation was made, this was inevitable. Such is the nature of making money, like it or loathe it.
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On a different note - what does the journalist mean by a "gigantic audience, culturally far removed from the writer who conceived it"? Obviously in a literal sense, almost everyone is 'culturally far removed' from Tolkien, an academic who has long since passed away, he's effectively from another world, and even while alive he lived in a rareified world. Does the writer mean that the masses 'culturally far removed' cannot understand just what Tolkien meant? Or does this have a more post-modern meaning, that now his works are out there, adapted, sub-created, thoroughly well used, that the readers/audience have more 'ownership' than those who currently hold the copyright? I have to say, good for the Estate that they finally got a cut of the profits, though they would not have them had Tolkien not sold over those rights. I wonder what they would rather have?
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#3 | |
Dead Serious
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First off, thanks to davem for finding this article. I find myself solidly in the CT/Inziladun camp regarding sympathies but that hardly sets me apart on this site...
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Mind you, I already thought that beforehand, so I might be revealing *my* assumptions rather than uncovering those of the original French author... ![]()
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#4 | |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 14
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Chris must find it physically exhausting, keeping his head turned away while cashing all those enormous cheques. ![]()
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Ma gavte la nata |
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#5 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#6 | |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,460
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More like writing all those cheques if he were to do it personally. No idea if you can read a set of accounts but this was the first lot that popped up on a search 2007 - bout half way since the films. http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/...070405_e_c.pdf If you do look at them you will see that the Trustees don't even take expenses which having been a finance officer for two charities I can tell you can tot up. So these are the charities that benefitted from the cashing of "all those enormous cheques". The second figure is the previous year's donation. The Trust likes to give longterm support rather than large one off payments. Interesting to note that the legal fees anticipated to get their dues from the films is about a years worth of donations. Shows what you can do with good PR if you can make the Tolkiens look like the bad guys in that sort of situation. Also makes you wonder what the parasites who try to freeload and cash in on Tolkien's name and work do with their profits. The Ace Centre Advisory Trust 6,000 Action Aid 20,000 Action Contre la Faim 20,000 115,000 Action for Blind People 2,000 2,000 Aid to the Church in Need (UK) 3,000 4,000 Alzheimer's Society 2,000 2,000 Amnesty International UK 16,000 15,000 Association of International Cancer Research 2,000 - Anglo-Peruvian Child Care Mission 2,000 - Association pour la Promotion des Extraits Foliaires en Nutrition 6,000 5,000 Asylum Aid 2,000 - Asylum Welcome 7,000 5,000 The Bat Conservation Trust 1,500 - Bhopal Medical Appeal 6,000 - The Big Issue Foundation 7,000 4,000 Birdlife International 10,000 10,000 Birmingham Diocesan Trust 3,000 3,000 Blaen Wern Farm Trust 7,500 6,500 The Bodleian Library - Archiving 35,000 - The Bodleian Library - Digitisation costs 43,857 - The Botley Alzheimer's Home 20,000 8,000 Breakthrough Breast Cancer 20,000 9,000 Brecon Mountain Rescue Team 5,000 - British Friends of NSWAS 5,000 5,000 British Red Cross 3,000 - British Refugee Council 5,000 2,000 British Retinitis Pigmentosa Society 2,000 2,000 CAFOD 8,000 5,000 Campaign to Protect Rural England 6,000 5,000 Cathedral of St Andrew and St Michael 5,000 - Childaid to Russia and the Republics 3,000 4,000 Christian Peace Education Fund 3,000 4,000 Climate Outreach Information Network 9,000 10,000 Complementary Health Trust 3,000 1,000 Create (Arts) Limited 6,000 5,000 Cued Speech Association UK 2,000 2,000 Cutteslowe and District Community Association 3,000 1,000 Dames of Ypres/Benedictine Sisters - Kylesmore Abbey 5,000 5,000 DEC Niger Crisis Appeal - 100,000 DEC Asia Quake Appeal - 200,000 Dresden Trust 3,000 1,000 EducAid Sierra Leone 3,000 2,000 Emmaus Oxford 9,000 - Enfants du Monde - Droits de I'Homme 15,000 15,000 Farm Crisis Network 2,000 - Find Your Feet Limited 25,000 113,000 The Foundation for Children with Leukaemia 2,000 2,000 The Friends of the Connection at St Martin-in-the-Fields 10,000 10,000 Gloucester Community Church 3,000 2,000 The Grail Centre Trust 50,000 - Guideposts Trust Limited 9,000 - The Guild of Handicraft Trust 3,000 2,000 The GYL Project 2,500 1,500 Handicap International 15,000 - Helen and Douglas House 3,000 - Help the Aged 2,000 - The Hope Foundation for Cancer Research 2,000 1,000 The Horse's Voice 3,000 1,000 The Howard League for Penal Reform 9,000 5,000 Inter Faith Network 3,000 1,000 Intercontinental Church Society 3,000 1,000 International Women's Health Coalition 10,000 - Independence at Home (formerly Invalids at Home) 2,000 2,000 Koestler Trust 5,000 - Lady Balogh's Psychotherapy Trust 3,000 1,000 Landmine Action 5,000 - Let the Children Live 2,000 - The Lincoln Clinic and Centre for Psychotherapy 3,000 1,000 Macmillan Cancer Relief 2,000 1,000 Medical Foundation for the Care of the Victims of Torture 10,000 10,000 Medecins du Monde 10,000 13,000 Medecins Sans Frontieres ( France) 25,000 15,000 Mildmay Mission Hospital 6,000 4,000 MIND (The National Association for Mental Health) 2,000 2,000 Music in Lyddington 2,000 1,000 National Children's Home 2,000 2,000 National Council on Ageing 3,000 2,000 National Deaf Children's Society - Birmingham and District Region 2,000 - New College Oxford 5,000 - The Oratory School 10,000 5,000 Orchestra of St. Johns Limited 6,000 4,000 Oxfam International 20,000 - Oxford Bach Choir 6,000 3,000 Oxford Homeless Medical Fund 9,000 10,000 Oxford Parent Infant Project (OXPIP) 6,000 5,000 The Oxford Philomusica Trust 6,000 5,000 The Oxford Playhouse Trust 9,000 5,000 Oxfordshire Touring Theatre Company Ltd 1,000 - Oxfordshire Victoria County History 6,000 - Performing Rights Society 3,000 - The Poetry Trust (formerly The Aldeburgh Poetry Trust) 2,000 2,000 The Porch 6,000 5,000 Practical Action (Intermediate Technology Development Group Ltd) 20,000 15,000 Prison Advice and Care Trust 2,000 - Prisoners' Education Trust 3,000 2,000 Rainbow Centre for Children 2,000 - Rebuilding Sri Lanka 40,000 - Rochdale Special Needs Cycling Club 1,000 - The Royal Commonwealth Society for the Blind - 2,000 The Royal National Lifeboat Institution 3,000 - The Royal National Institute for the Blind 3,000 9,500 The Samaritans 5,000 2,000 The Save the Children Fund 3,000 2,000 Shelter, National Campaign for Homeless People Limited 11,000 6,000 Simon Wiesenthal Centre 2,000 2,000 The Smile Train 5,000 - Sobell House Hospice Charity 3,000 - St Aloysius Appeal 20,000 8,000 St Hilda's College Oxford 5,000 - St Peter's Church, Eynsham - 20,000 The Story Museum 2,000 1,000 Survive - Miva 3,000 2,000 Sustrans 3,000 - Swansea Russian Ballet 7,500 5,500 The Tablet Trust 6,000 5,000 Talking Newspaper Association of the UK (TNAUK) 3,000 2,000 The Thomley Hall Centre Limited 6,000 5,000 Trefnu Cymunedol Cymru 10,000 5,000 Trinity College Oxford 5,000 - Trust for Research and Education on the Arms Trade 6,000 4,000 Ty Hafan Children's Hospice 12,500 10,000 The UK Working Group on Landmines - 6,000 United Christian Broadcasters Ltd 2,000 1,000 The United Kingdom Committee for UNICEF 25,000 10,000 University of Oxford Botanic Garden and Harcourt Arboretum 7,000 - University of Oxford Refugee Study Centre 3,000 1,000 University of Manitoba (Alan Klass Memorial Fund) 20,000 20,000 WaterAid 20,000 15,000 West London Churches Homeless Concern 6,000 4,000 The Who Cares? Trust 2,500 - Womankind Worldwide 10,000 10,000 The Woodland Trust 15,000 10,500 World Cancer Research Fund 6,000 2,000 WWF - Canada 5,000 5,000 WWF - UK 10,000 10,000
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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#7 | |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 14
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![]() Whoa, pard. Best to load up with something other than blanks before you start shooting the messenger. No idea about how well you grasp the obvious, but them thar dastardly Hollywood moguls acquired the movie rights legally, for what at the time would've been considered a princely sum. If the first movie had bombed, that would've meant no billion-dollar Tolkien media empire. But here's Chris Tolkien, all like... Hollywood is a satanic scabrous brothel, a loathsome sump of vile whoremongers peddling lowbrow filth to the hoi-polloi. ...And I shall have my percentage! Which is hypocrisy, to use the technical term. (You can google it.) Nice list of charities, as smokescreens go anyway... "Villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged." Not that ol' Chris is a villain, that would be too significant. More of a Frank Sinatra Junior, or maybe something a bit more abject. "Hypocritical money-grubbing elitist reptile" works. Quote:
Would that be like someone who vacuums up every last motley scrap of paper JRR ever touched, hastily glues it together and sells the resulting garbled mess as a lost masterpiece?
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#8 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,039
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I don't think Christopher has ever claimed any of his father's "reassembled" works to be a "masterpiece". He's been quite frank about the limitations of such works as Unfinished Tales and The Silmarillion. Would you prefer that they had never seen the light of day? And if you don't like the job CT did, who would you have preferred as an editor?
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#9 | ||||||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 479
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Christopher Tolkien has the same legal right you go on about to write books about his father’s works as the film makers have to make their films. Christopher Tolkien’s books have sold unexpectedly well. I have not seen most of them pushed as a “lost masterpiece”. I have seen the films pushed as masterpieces. Christopher Tolkien has a legal claim to a share of the profits of the films (if any). The claim of the film makers is that they have as yet made no money from the films. The courts disagreed. If you believe that the courts were wrong, then explain how they were wrong. If your claim is on the legal level, then keep it on that level. Legally it would not matter if Christopher Tolkien were an axe-murderer and pederast and abominable writer. As executor of the Tolkien estate he has the right and duty to protect the estate. Similarly the film investors have the right and duty to protect their investment. Your argument seems to me to be that because you think that Christopher Tolkien has done a poor job of managing his father’s legacy the courts should have accepted that the films have as yet made no profit. But one has nothing to do with the other. And sales of the books put out by Christopher Tolkien indicate, taken by themselves, that he is doing a good job. The courts decided that the film investors were lying. That is not a blank. Under the legal agreement which J. R. R. Tolkien signed Christopher Tolkien is entitled to money according to the courts. Last edited by jallanite; 07-13-2012 at 01:32 PM. |
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#10 | ||
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
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I don't know why you have such an axe to grind, but it seems to me you have seriously misjudged the intent of Christopher Tolkien as executor of his father's unpublished material, and you are utterly misguided regarding the scholarly value and reading enjoyment of Christopher Tolkien's publications. He has shown the utmost integrity and a love for his father's work that I find exemplary. Your posts, on the other hand, leave much to be desired.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. Last edited by Morthoron; 07-13-2012 at 05:21 PM. |
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#11 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,460
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Any facts in there? Sources for quotations?
On what basis do you feel you have the right to address Christopher Tolkien as "Ol'Chris"? say he is insignificant and abject? Cheers Morth, jallanite and Inzil.. no need for me to reiterate your splendid comments.
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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#12 | |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,460
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I have had a quick look at the original and it is quite interesting to read the comments of the French readers.
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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