TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I've done the same thing time and time again when I've been a wolf. Get too dramatic over the slightest of things.
...
Now tell me if you think overly-dramatic reactions to stuff like word definitions and the way questions are phrased is genuine?

That depends a lot on who is doing it, don't you think? If the phantom tried it, I'd not turn half of my ear to him, but if Mith did it, I would be fairly certain it's true.

[Nogrod]

I'm off to bed as well...

I hope there will be a lot of discussion during the night here, especially by those who have been quiet or enigmatic thus far. The DL for me (and other Finns) is 2PM so as I'm on vacation I should have time to both read and take part nicely before it.

Be active.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Lottie always seems suspicious on Day 1, so it's no surprise that she does now, but with the whole late meta-discussion comment I mentioned before as well as some of the other points people have brought against her, she seems worse than usual.

No. Just no. This happens every game. I don't mind the being suspected easily, I've gotten used to that - but if I had a kitten for every time someone says "she's always suspicious, I know that...but she's more suspicious than usual this time"...let's just say my allergies would be killing me.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

1) That talk needs to be made in every game so that random votes don't happen.

Then why isn't it? I wouldn't have even noticed it if it were said every game. It would just be normal. Part of the reason it's so odd-looking is that it is, in fact, abnormal. Just because it 'needs to be said', according to you (which I disagree with, by the way - if a bunch of people post giant blocks of angry text about not randomly voting every game, no one will read them after the first few times. It will cease to have any meaning whatsoever) does not mean I am forbidden to comment on it when, for the first time in my memory, not just one but three people post about it.

And it needs to be stated in no unplain terms. After it is done and the general mood is outspoken, no wolf wishes to dare a random vote. It's called "performative use of language" in linguistics and philosophy of language: saying things make them happen. Not saying it loudly enough leaves room for different behaviours (and sadly I'm not convinced our rant was enough for no one to try a declared random vote but well, we'l see about that).

No. I disagree. Now, I'm not a linguistics and philosophy of language expert, but I do know from experience that just because you say something loud enough doesn't make it happen. Yes, if everyone here posted and said that, no one would random vote, but that's just because everyone would have to agree to post. As it is, clearly some people don't agree, because people do random vote. Ranting loudly won't make them change their minds. It'll just make people skim your posts because your rants are obnoxious.

2) Of all people you say that Legate and I are the ones who try to hunker down and stay ambivalent and just fill space with saying nothing! Really?
Really?

People like Bom and Sally are basically expected to post little to nothing of substance on Day One. You and Legate are not. When people do what I'm not used to them doing, I pay attention more than when they do what I am used to them doing.

But something I feel uneasy with her is in her post where she answers Rikae about G55. It is kind of, how would you say it, like a child who wants to play nice for mom even if she hasn't been good lately. When mom asks, she immediately answers - finds an answer she hasn't herself picked up before but is kind of "good enough" to be an answer, and gives it just like that. And then mom pats her head and doesn't ask nasty questions any more.

But I had noticed it. I just hadn't posted about it yet. When Rikae asked, I figured I might as well flesh out my concern about the post.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

See my point? It's impossible to avoid using weird/odd/strange to describe unusual/suspicious behavior.

I know, I use them too. But to use the same one like 5 times in the same list? All these people can't feel exactly the same to you, can they?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Be active.

Yessir.

I have ~2hours before bedtime, and I have little work left, so I can participate a bit more actively... possibly. If I don't procrastinate.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So, Rikae is saying that Legate is right in stating that there should be conversation (defending the Acolyte discussion), and that she disagrees with the way Zil & Bom post empty posts (aka posts that don't get us any further, I guess?)

Eönwë is saying that he doesn't like the way Zil turned the Acolyte discussion into a meta discussion - whether that is true or false as I'm not sure it was Zil (or him alone) who turned the discussion off the Acolyte (or whether it was bad that Acolyte discussion finally ended).

But "piling onto easy suspicion in the Legate - Inzil case"? Nope.

I do think that Eönwë seemed to leap at the opportunity, but now he's backed off somewhat. Rikae seemed less serious about it from the start.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

To me those doing it are the ones who jump on it (the "controversy" between the two) and parrot things like "that is the interesting thing toDay" - implying that we should concentrate on them. That's "piling up" for me. Pointing at that discusiion as being the one to pay heed to (while ignoring other possibilities).

I agree, that would indeed be a good place for baddies to hide. I still think Steve seems suspicious, though.

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Love to Nogrod for

, this relatively new linguistics student got all excited about that point. I think that sounded genuine, though I haven't played with this active Nogrod and I'm assuming he's just the same when he's a wolf. Just as convincing, that is. And I actually do think that there was enough discussion on random votes so that any will now seem relatively suspicious.

(emphasis mine)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but could you clarify what you meant by the bolded bit?

[Galadriel55]

Somehow my reply to Lottie was eaten up. I am being kicked out from my computer, so I'll repost it later. For now, though -

Originally Posted by Lottie

But I had noticed it. I just hadn't posted about it yet. When Rikae asked, I figured I might as well flesh out my concern about the post.

This doesn't make sense to me. Am I the only one, or does this really make no sense? If you noticed, why did you make a suspicious post? Or if you only noticed later, why didn't you comment "yet"?

I'll elaborate when I get my computer back.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A Nogrod-style (i.e.: late night ) post from me, then bed, then probably waking up tomorrow and posting rather shortly before DL (with vote).

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Legate, one thing I'd like to be clear about - if, as you say, you weren't accusing Zil when all this started, are you accusing him now or is your insistence merely scientific interest in his thought processes?

Rather the later. If I wanted to be honest, I would say I *am* suspicious of him now: however, there is little of what one would call "wolfiness" about him. I mean, he is not manipulating people or stuff like that, he is just totally weird. Now, with his last post in which he basically did nothing but quoted me, he did not still answer my question - even though he tried, apparently! He answered with the very same thing we all know already and which he had said already four times over. We know what you meant by saying that acolyte discussion blah blah, Zil, but all I wanted to hear is why you had been proposing focusing instead of debating the Acolyte on catching Wolves, yet failed to lead by example, or if not lead, then at least try! I wonder which part of that have I not made clear enough...
Okay, I'd say let's forget that, if it were not for the fact that it is one of the most "important" (standing out) things you have said and that it does not make any sense...

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Weird is a pretty common Lommyism. I know, because I've harped on her before to stop using it if she's suspecting someone.

(bold my emphasis).

See my point? It's impossible to avoid using weird/odd/strange to describe unusual/suspicious behavior.

Again. He is being too nice, if he is all right, I will eat my shoe, seriously. Normal Boro attacks people. This Boro defends people. No. It is incredibly stupid to suspect people based on that they are nice and such, but it was the very same Boro who had told me last time (after the game when I suspected him and then backed off and failed to lynch him) that I should not give up on this lead... so I won't. Nice Boro is most likely a Wolf. Normal Boro tends not to smudge honey all over you.

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

I agree with Boro seeming slightly less aggressive and energetic than the last time I played with him, enough to seem non-usual. Hence I feel that Greenie's vote was understandable and that makes her send positive vibes for me. Also this kind of non-explained but apparently with some reason behind it -vote seems rather like her.

Okay, this is the first time I play with Pomegranate (whoever you are), but I must say I'm impressed by the either incredibly sharp or incredibly overconfident insight into Boro, since I would sign it (I mean: I know how innocent Boro tends to act based on dozens of games, not sure how many games Pomegranate might have been in, but it certainly cannot be much). That said, impressed does not rule out eventual suspicion (and does not rule out that both our suspicions of Boro are completely off after all), but for the time being, I will just stop at the "impressed" part.

Otherwise... I think that's about what I have to say right now. Still feeling very good about Rikae (probably on top of my "trustworthy" list now), otherwise what I said... so I shall pop up before DL.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Boro also worries me. He's usually loud and talkative, but now he seems to be flitting in and out of the game in a way that seems almost non-commital. He hasn't spoken much yet though, so I can't judge him properly.

You ever have one of those days where it feels like you can't remember what you've been doing all day? That's been me today...like I swear I've kept up-to-date on all the replies, and by Day 1 standards it appears moderately productive, yet...I haven't the faintest clue what the heck I've been reading. Nothing is sinking in, it's as if I'm reading words but not complete sentences with thoughts and ideas. Probably why I've looked so disconnected and non-commital, and I can't do anything except say "you're right, I'm not being me."

I'll be up for the next 2-ish hours, so will go back and read through it again, and will have to vote within that time too.

Edit: crossed with Legate

[Loslote]

++Lommy

Because of her list post, overreaction to the 'suspicion that wasn't' against Pitch, and stretching her points in general. She's my top suspect, and I'm not positive I'll be online again before DL.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Okay, this is the first time I play with Pomegranate (whoever you are), but I must say I'm impressed by the either incredibly sharp or incredibly overconfident insight into Boro, since I would sign it (I mean: I know how innocent Boro tends to act based on dozens of games, not sure how many games Pomegranate might have been in, but it certainly cannot be much). That said, impressed does not rule out eventual suspicion (and does not rule out that both our suspicions of Boro are completely off after all), but for the time being, I will just stop at the "impressed" part.

Last game was Pomegranate's first, as far as WW here, although I believe she said she was familiar with the premise of the game. Anyway, she definitely was in the "impressed me" group...oh maybe I shouldn't say that...makes me too nice still.

Was not one of the frequent posters, but when she did it was always stocked to the brim with insight and good observations. Ahh, again, I really need to stop this complimenting thing...eh whatever, it's the truth.

[Galadriel55]

So, anyways -

I've reread Lottie's posts and there really isn't that much suspicious stuff. There's only 2 things (out of all the mountains of suspicion) that don't look good to me: the post Nog talked about, and her last one. Here they are:

Originally Posted by Lottie

This caught my eye when she posted it:

Considering that this is actually one of the more productive Day Ones in recent memory, this feels like G55 trying to stall useful discussion by writing it off as "oh, well, this Day is doomed to be non-productive, too bad".

Other than that, though, nothing she's said really stood out to me.

Originally Posted by Nog

But something I feel uneasy with her is in her post where she answers Rikae about G55. It is kind of, how would you say it, like a child who wants to play nice for mom even if she hasn't been good lately. When mom asks, she immediately answers - finds an answer she hasn't herself picked up before but is kind of "good enough" to be an answer, and gives it just like that. And then mom pats her head and doesn't ask nasty questions any more.

Originally Posted by Lottie

But I had noticed it. I just hadn't posted about it yet. When Rikae asked, I figured I might as well flesh out my concern about the post.

So my issue with the last one: Lottie, you're saying that you agree with Nog that your first (quoted) post looks bad, and that you've noticed this before. Well, if you have, why did you wait to say so, and then come out and say that you did know it? And why did you write a post that looks badif you realised it looks bad (this is against all the logic of the game)?

Though the last point - illogical as it is - points to Lottie's innocence rather than guilt, because, as with Zil, I don't think a wolf would deliberately say such a thing that would put him/her into the light.

For now I decided I'm not voting Lottie toDay. It's too easy to lynch her. There's too much unreasonable suspicion. Lottie's posts tend to be more loosely-worded than other players', and thus more easy to manipulate. (This might be the issue with what I quoted above too.)

Originally Posted by Lottie

Then why isn't it? I wouldn't have even noticed it if it were said every game. It would just be normal. Part of the reason it's so odd-looking is that it is, in fact, abnormal. Just because it 'needs to be said', according to you (which I disagree with, by the way - if a bunch of people post giant blocks of angry text about not randomly voting every game, no one will read them after the first few times. It will cease to have any meaning whatsoever) does not mean I am forbidden to comment on it when, for the first time in my memory, not just one but three people post about it.

Don't be so harsh. People need to rant . Werewolf rants are different in each game - random votes, submarines, last-minute scuffle... But usually there is, or rather, there are rants.

Edit: xed since my last.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

If I wanted to be honest, I would say I *am* suspicious of him now: however, there is little of what one would call "wolfiness" about him. I mean, he is not manipulating people or stuff like that, he is just totally weird. Now, with his last post in which he basically did nothing but quoted me, he did not still answer my question - even though he tried, apparently! He answered with the very same thing we all know already and which he had said already four times over. We know what you meant by saying that acolyte discussion blah blah, Zil, but all I wanted to hear is why you had been proposing focusing instead of debating the Acolyte on catching Wolves, yet failed to lead by example, or if not lead, then at least try! I wonder which part of that have I not made clear enough...
Okay, I'd say let's forget that, if it were not for the fact that it is one of the most "important" (standing out) things you have said and that it does not make any sense...

This is my final word on this matter.

Legate, I didn't have to "lead by example" to move things away from the Acolyte: it happened on its own, and people started reacting to the two of us instead. I really didn't see it as all that complex.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Okay, this is the first time I play with Pomegranate (whoever you are), but I must say I'm impressed by the either incredibly sharp or incredibly overconfident insight into Boro, since I would sign it (I mean: I know how innocent Boro tends to act based on dozens of games, not sure how many games Pomegranate might have been in, but it certainly cannot be much). That said, impressed does not rule out eventual suspicion (and does not rule out that both our suspicions of Boro are completely off after all), but for the time being, I will just stop at the "impressed" part.

I've played one game with Pom/Nate, and she was innocent then. She proved herself to be a sharp player indeed.

That said, it's funny how the one post from her thus far was such a parroting of suspicion on someone who already has a vote.

x/d with Lottie, Boro, and G55.

[Inziladun]

Bedtime soon, and I'll have to vote shortly, as my waking-up time is right about DL. Pity, because there are many that have been here toDay very little or not at all.

I think I'm leaning toward Eönwë. Despite what Nog said, it did look to me as if he was opportunistically latching onto Legate's apparent suspicion of me.

[Bom Tombadillo]

*sigh* Well, I'd say that I'm off for a bit and will return before bed with a vote, but I know how this works. I'm going to get caught up in whatever else I end up doing and forget to vote.

So. I've still got no suspicions great enough to act on, and I don't seem to be in danger of being lynched.

++Bom Tombadillo

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

So my issue with the last one: Lottie, you're saying that you agree with Nog that your first (quoted) post looks bad, and that you've noticed this before. Well, if you have, why did you wait to say so, and then come out and say that you did know it? And why did you write a post that looks badif you realised it looks bad (this is against all the logic of the game)?

Popped back on - Girl's Night was cancelled after all - and G55, I now understand your confusion. I didn't say that I'd noticed Nog's point before I posted about it. I meant that I'd noticed my point about you before I posted it.

EDIT: And now I'm really off. Good hunting, all!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

*sigh* Well, I'd say that I'm off for a bit and will return before bed with a vote, but I know how this works. I'm going to get caught up in whatever else I end up doing and forget to vote.

So. I've still got no suspicions great enough to act on, and I don't seem to be in danger of being lynched.

++Bom Tombadillo

Nilping yourself, eh? I suppose that's an understandable out for a pressed-for-time innocent not wanting to hit a Gifted, but it also could be an easy ploy for a wolf. For the moment, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

x/d with Lottie

[Galadriel55]

It's time for me to vote, and I really don't know who to vote for. And my vote will not be random, much as I'm tempted to just throw die.

I don't like some of the Lottie-suspicion, but it's too late now for me to start pushing and probing into it. Also, the same people who suspected Lottie made valid reasonable points.

Boro really is being nice. When I played with Borowolf he was not particularly nice (no, you weren't mean, you were just you ), so I can't say that his manner points to lupinity. Maybe he just decided out of the blue to mend his ways.

Can't say I suspect him, but Legate is right about the change in the manner.

The only other person that is closer to being a suspect is Lommy. I've said very little about her, but there has been some talk about her with which I agree. (the only bit of which I don't like is that she made a big deal out of an unexistent attack, which I think was pure misunderstanding on her part.)

During the Day I decided whom I'm not voting for. I don't know who I will vote for. Between Lommy and Boro (both of which, coincidentally, have votes) I am leaning more towards Lommy. My uneasiness with her comes from the content of what she said, whereas with Boro it is with how he says it. Yeah, I'll call that my final decision.

Vote comming in a few minutes. I want to wait as long as I can before leaving off.

Edit: xed since #92

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Popped back on - Girl's Night was cancelled after all - and G55, I now understand your confusion. I didn't say that I'd noticed Nog's point before I posted about it. I meant that I'd noticed my point about you before I posted it.

Ah. Right. We're all good. (but what Nog said still stands!)


And speaking of Nog, I'm sorry about not participating much when I said I would. I wasn't counting on my computer being used by other peoples, so instead of posting summaries/analises I ended up posting scattered thoughts in snatches...

[Galadriel55]

++LOMMY


G'night, all.

[Inziladun]

Can't leave it any longer.

++Eönwë

Good luck, folks.

[satansaloser2005]

I am going to bed in precisely forty-five minutes, if not before. I will make my final decision in the meantime (and also put on my cozy pajamas). For now, however, I shall offer some thoughts.

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

*sigh* Well, I'd say that I'm off for a bit and will return before bed with a vote, but I know how this works. I'm going to get caught up in whatever else I end up doing and forget to vote.

So. I've still got no suspicions great enough to act on, and I don't seem to be in danger of being lynched.

++Bom Tombadillo

Oh, you simply must be joking.


I am completely ignoring the scuffle from earlier toDay, at least for now. Let's leave that to be sorted out once we have any sort of concrete information with which to do so.

Also, this acolyte business! Aren't we meant to be catching spies? I understand the pull of discussing the subject, but really, I've ignored most of it for now, because it's far from my primary concern.

I trust one person at present, and that's Lottie. Her kitten comment in this post is oddly reassuring; it seems like my innocent Lottie, rather than an evil one. I also wish to keep the Finn contingent (+1) around, though it's presently more for entertainment value than for safety.

Bom's self-vote does not sit well with me at all. Seriously? Why would you do that? (Yeah, sure, he "explained" it, but I don't like it one bit.)

My beloved prince Boro is, of course, a sweet young lad who could never do harm.

I see Mr. Agreeable is back. Presently I'm thinking he's come back with a new fur coat. I don't suppose I could borrow it, sir? It's been quite chilly in these parts and I could use the warmth. (Overclarifying and getting irked at people's ineptitude at sarcasm do not fit an innocent Pitch's modus wolferandi.)

Steve? Steve is up to something. Oh, and Rikae is obviously evil, as always.


Or, as they say in Limerick....

Of Bom's vote I do not approve
It seems like a quite scheming move
Now stop all your fighting
And talks of wick-lighting
And make cases which you can prove

[satansaloser2005]

Wait a tick. The DL is at six? That's....man, that's going to make me want to get up early before work and try to chat some more. I thought it was at two for some reason. Still, I best just vote now(ish) and go to bed.

This has been the indecisive Sally post for this particular five minutes. I'll be voting shortly, so if anyone's around and has suggestions for me, I'd love to hear them.


Or, as they say in Limerick....

It seems that I cannot tell time
For really, I thought the deadline
Was just after two
Not when I hit snooze
And yet toward my bed I shall climb

[Rikae]

I'm going to bed and unlikely to be back again before DL, so I'm going to be with my original suspicion... I was going to vote for someone else, but the recent posts from

++Inzil

have a bad vibe to them, as if he's confident that he shifted the focus and can see one of the other suspects lynched. An innocent who dodged suspicion might be relieved, but would still be concerned about placing his own vote correctly and finding the actual wolves, and the tone of his posts seems off in light of that. In addition to my earlier suspicions it puts him in the lead.

[satansaloser2005]

Of my previously mentioned top options, I don't think Bom will go anywhere toDay, and I'm willing to give Rikae the benefit of the doubt, mostly because she was involved in the shenanigans earlier toDay and thus is confusing to read at the moment. (Also, I'm tired, so nyah.) I'm following my gut on this one, though I will by no means dissuade people from lynching Pitch in my absence.

I, however, will be voting for the last wolf in London. Well, hopefully.


Or, as they say in Limerick....

Though Rikae I do not believe
I give her and Bom a reprieve
For it is well-known
As Fea has shown
It's more fun to find rhymes for
++Steve


EDIT: x'd with Rikae's vote

[Eruhen]

Popping in before I drop off:

++Lommy

Sorry real life got in the way toDay, but I'll be back toMorrow ready to go.

[Nerwen]

Greetings, loyal subjects.

The voting so far:
A Little Green ––> Boro
Lottie ––> Lommy
Bom Tombadillo ––> Self
Galadriel55 ––> Lommy (2)
Inziladun ––> Eönwë
Rikae ––> Inziladun
Sally ––> Eönwë (2)
Eruhen ––> Lommy (3)

Left to vote: Boro, Shasta, Eönwë, Pomegranate, Pitchwife, Lommy, Nogrod, Legate.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Isn't it?
How would you describe what's going on here?

Do I need to explain myself again? I didn't like the acolyte discussion because it meant everyone could hide under the veil of "This discussion is better than nothing, at least later we can look back on it" (see my earlier post). I'm still not sure what Inzil was getting at, but by reiterating his side so many times, he gave more justification for people to argue the side that already has general consensus, and so no, I didn't like that because it gives the wolves a place to hide.
Just because something doesn't automatically make him evil, it doesn't mean I have to like what he's doing, does it?
You can try to misrepresent my argument (twice) if you want, but I think it's clear in the context of the rest of my post that this is what I was getting at.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Eönwë is saying that he doesn't like the way Zil turned the Acolyte discussion into a meta discussion - whether that is true or false as I'm not sure it was Zil (or him alone) who turned the discussion off the Acolyte (or whether it was bad that Acolyte discussion finally ended).

Inzil made three posts that essentially said "Let's not talk about the Acolyte and focus on finding the wolves" while making no suggestions about how such a thing might be done. The actual Acolyte discussion is irrelevant.



Ironically, I'm really not liking the look of Inzil now. I didn't find his play suspicious before, just very weird, but now, not only has he not even attempted to explain his actions, he's tried to claim I'm suspicious for pointing them out.


I probably actually want to vote for Inzil now. Lottie on a Day 1 is a bad idea, and no one else actually seems lynch-worthy yet.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm here and reading (looks like I very nearly pulled a Kath! )

Also, this deadline is an... interesting one for me.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Shall we all now flock to protect Shasta since the Moddess Goddess's marvelous narration surely leaves no doubt about the identity of the seer?

Shhh!

Originally Posted by Lommy

Given the recent events, I think honour would demand Shasta and I go nilp because of our failures at serving the Empress. Oh woe!

But I never left my post! And besides, all of you know I'd never hurt the Empress!

Originally Posted by Lommy

Speaking of voting, I HATE RANDOM VOTES. THEY DON'T SERVE THE VILLAGE IN ANY WAY. DON'T MAKE THEM IF YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE ME ANGRY AND SUSPICIOUS OF YOU.

This is an awfully fervent announcement. I'm curious now, Lommy, of what you think of Bom's self-vote.

As far as speculating on the Acolyte goes, you all know speculating is one of my favorite things. So my personal speculation - it's possible that the Acolyte isn't either innocent-aligned or wolf-aligned, but rather has a win condition entirely their own (survive till the end, get X lynched, et cetera.) Boro's Mythomaniac idea, however, has merit, and I think it's an equally likely possibility.

Legate's #14 seems to be the start of this "Legate/Inzil business I've been reading about. It's also another one of the "hate of random votes" posts. What interests me in it is this quote of Legate's -

Originally Posted by Legate

Now that said, it's nothing against you in particular, Zil (even though I quoted your post)

- which would be all good and well, had it ended there, but Legate keeps going after Zil in #20 -

Originally Posted by Legate

Sure. That was what I gathered. However, as you have seen in my point, it is very nice that you are saying that, but what do you mean by "focus on finding Wolves". Saying "we should be finding Wolves" and finishing the post with that is probably the worst thing one can do. "What you are doing is not exactly what we should be doing, but I am not doing anything else either, I merely dismiss what you are doing but don't do anything new myself." I would therefore urge (if it wasn't clear enough from my previous posts) everyone who says "we shouldn't focus on this and that" not only to say what we should focus on (catching wolves, we ALL know that, of course, once again see what I said in my previous post, what else are we here for? Does anybody seriously think we are here to discuss Acolytes???), but MOST OF ALL to actually DO something, too, and not just talk how things *theoretically* should be done.

- so I think it's a bit strange that Legate continues going after Inzil with a point that he specifically mentioned wasn't a point against Inzil.

There's another interesting bit involving Lommy, Pitch, and G55 - about whether it's wise to speculate on the details of the Acolyte role. Lommy's point about not being sure it's wise to discuss the details of the role if it cooperates with the Seer is a valid one; and I personally agree with Pitch on the matter, that with the possibility that the Acolyte can join the wolf side, there's no harm in talking about it if it might wind up against us - but G55's reaction interests me.

Originally Posted by G55

Yeah, but the wolves are also listening. Personally, I don't want to give them ideas about how to strengthen their side.

I don't understand this reaction. Given that at this time all we have is speculation (and speculation that's likely to be wrong, in any case), I think the benefits of talking about it definitely outweigh any drawbacks, like that of the wolves listening. Let them. If they somehow manage to act on any random theory or idle speculation we've mentioned, and are spectacularly wrong, all the better for us.

Nogrod's #23 is a long, well-written post that doesn't really say much. For one, it's another "hate on random votes" post, and for another, it's his thoughts on the Acolyte. All well and good, but it seems he's replying to something Legate was using against Inzil at the time, which doesn't really fit.

And in a bit of a turnaround, Inzil's #24 is another answer to Legate that's basically been the same as his previous answers. Could be a case of "talking too much yet saying nothing", but I still tend to think Legate is the fishier of the two.

Now, Inzil's response (#26) to Lottie's joke (#25) was a real eyebrow-raiser, the first time I came across it. My first reaction to it was "Inzil's noting that Lottie caught Pitch in a slip!" But then later he says it was something different entirely.

I agree with Lottie's #28, about the random votes. I hate them as much as the next person, but ranting about it serves no purpose (and doesn't stop certain people from doing them, as we've seen.)

In #29, Inzil mentions that Rikae agrees with him and then doesn't like the emptiness of his posts, which looks like an opportunistic kind of "hey, look, that's suspicious" move - except in the post he quotes, Rikae says she agrees with Legate, not Inzil. Interesting.

ADD: Rikae herself mentions that a bit later -

Originally Posted by Rikae

Inzil, as I said, I agree with Legate. Posts that demand people work on catching wolves, rather than work on it themselves, are empty posts.

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Ok, what I don't like is how Inzil managed to change the discussion about the Acolyte into meta-discussion. While the former discussion lets people think about the game ahead and shows people's attitudes now, as well as maybe being interesting to look at in future, this discussion about whether we should discuss it is bad because it's giving everyone a place to hide. Legate replied first, but now everyone's repeating the same thing (which I thought had been general consensus for ages anyway- it was when I last played) about any discussion being better than no discussion.

I'm not saying that Inzil or Legate are bad, but people are too keen to bandwaggon onto that discussion and say nothing of value, while looking active and helpful.

But I'm curious, Zil, what did you have in mind?

...What? You just got through basically reprimanding Inzil for discussion that doesn't accomplish anything, and now you're giving him a license to continue? That's.... awkward, Steve, very awkward indeed.

Originally Posted by Boro

I should also say because the DL doesn't fit my schedule well, I'll most of the time probably have to vote 5-6 hours early. So, whoever is able to keep around at the DL...with double-lynching a factor, please stop this trend of "keep my vote until the last possible second" vote flurry.

I agree with this. Being another of those "will probably have to vote hours ahead of schedule", I would rather not see three people lynched at the same time because of people crossing at DL. However, this is currently subverted by the fact that my sleep schedule is currently wack, and I'll almost definitely actually be here for the DL toDay.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Now, to get down to business, the most interesting thing that has happened so far is between Legate and Zil. Legate is of course right that saying "But we have to catch wolves" is a) easy and b) doesn't achieve anything in actually catching them [plus c) it's more or less saying "look how determined I am to catch wolves, I can't possibly be one"], and also in criticizing Zil for keeping aloof of the Acolyte discussion without suggesting an alternative.

The problem with this is that Zil plunging headlong into a D1 discussion with arguments left right & center is about as likely to happen as Bom starting D1 with a Nogrodesque rallying speech. He has this style of hanging back, observing and biding his time early in the game, and whenever I've suspected him because of it I've been wrong.

That said, Legate's criticism of him looks innocent to me (and the vehemence with which he pursued it just feels un-faked), but I don't like how people regurgitate it now and pile onto an easy suspicion (people meaning Rikae and Eönwë - especially Eönwë who complains about 'people' [no names given] 'bandwaggoning on that discussion' while doing it himself).

Pitch is now the second person to basically say 'Yeah, Legate had a good point on Inzil' (Greenie was the first.) And that bothers me, since Legate specifically said that what he was saying was "nothing against Zil". It's also worth noting that though Pitch apparently agrees with Legate's point, he hangs back a bit with "whenever I've suspected him because of it I've been wrong" - almost in a way that leaves him an out in case an Inzil lynch happens.

G55's post #39 is an incredible overreaction (and yes, that's coming from me, no one's allowed to laugh .) But really, asking someone what they think of you isn't tantamount to "here, make this point against this person for me."


And that's page 1 done. Moving on.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Inzil's #47 is chock-full of fun and games, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Galadriel looked a bit whimsy to begin with but her defence of herself looks pretty genuine.

If you're talking about when she blew up at Rikae, I tend to disagree here (what? Shasta disagrees with Nogrod?) And I tend to disagree with Boro, too, when he mentioned that "that's typical G55." I'm almost certain I've never seen G55 explode like that, and the post she made after to clarify what she was saying (indeed, that she felt like she had to clarify at all) looks suspicious to me.

Also, the fact that it's Nogrod, of all people, defending what seems to be an emotional outburst is an immediate red flag.

Also also -

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think Greenie might be up to something with her suspicion on the behaviour of some with the Legate - Zil -discussion.

I was originally going to say "He's the third, along with Pitch and Greenie!" but then realized he's actually talking about Greenie's later post, which was quite valid. So that's okay then.

Originally Posted by G55

Zil's last post makes him look more innocent than not. He's making sense.

I don't know if I'd go that far.

Originally Posted by Lommy

The thing that caught my attention this far the most was the odd case of Lottie and Zil going against Pitch for saying "in case we manage to lynch our seer early". I mean, come on, that was clearly sarcastic phrasing! I'm not sure which is worse, Lottie pointing it out as a suspicious passage, or Zil implying it's a good point. (Unless Zil was sarcastic too? or referring to something else? I'm talking about #26)

Aha, that's what I was wondering about, as well.

ADD:

Originally Posted by Inzil

Pardon? I don't think I mentioned that bit from Pitch at all.

Lommy at #58.
Inzil at #59.

Okay, sure. Those two posts together, though, made me think the same thing Lommy thought. (Which is weird! )

Originally Posted by Eonwe

And this still means that Lottie looks bandwaggony, and without a good excuse, since it was definitely and definitively resolved by that point, considering that everyone present except Pitchwife and Boro (on which note, Boro has actually said very little of actual substance so far) had voiced their opinion that any discussion was better than no discussion.

I disagree. It looks to me as though Lottie was simply answering Inzil's statement there (look at the wording.)

Originally Posted by Rikae

Now Inzil, come out and claim what you're trying to claim so we can all see how implausible it really is!

-snickers-

Originally Posted by Lottie

That wasn't an attack by any means. It was one semi-banter, playful poke post and one post that didn't actually end up having anything to do with the 'attack'. This seems to me like a Lommy-wolf overreacting to what she perceives as suspicion on her packmate, and responding by agreeing that he's suspicious but also throwing the 'attack' into poor light. I'd like to, first of all, keep a closer look at their interactions, but also note that Lommy is now one of my top suspicions.

Mmm... Personally, I never saw your post as the attack (we are talking about that post with "manage to", right?), but rather I thought Inzil was jumping on it a bit. Lommy appears to have thought the same (see above), until Inzil corrected her, which doesn't seem to be that suspicious to me (as I thought the same). So, are you suspecting Lommy for calling your post the attack, then?

ADD:

Originally Posted by Lommy

Uggh, I should wake up in less than 8h, so better quit ww now. I don't really have much to add - maybe just that I still think Lottie's comment about Pitch sounded like a "lookee, lookee, he made a slip!" and if someone agreed she'd be ready to go "exactly, that's what I said!" but if someone questioned her reasoning she'd be saying "I was just making fun of him". I'll be back well before the DL and vote then based on all the evidence that has piled up while I've been sleeping and attending my morning lecture...

Okay... Lottie's post was pretty obviously a joke to me, given that it's Lottie (and given the wink smiley.) So you're thinking it's Lottie, not Inzil who looks weird there? But I thought you were just thinking it was Inzil (see above)? If that's the case, then you look like you're scrambling to make the same evidence fit a different theory now that your first one's been debunked, if that makes sense. Right now, that looks bad.

In Legate's #68 (and, apparently, in his list from earlier, as I think that's where Eonwe got his quote), he apparently legitimately suspects Inzil? Which, then, looks a bit like a Legatewolf going "Hey, people bought that? Okay, let's go with it!"

I do agree with him about Bom, though. But then I always suspect Bom and want to vote him on principle.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What bothers me about Boro is the way he painted G55 suspicious. To me her strong reaction to Rikae's question for Lottie looked very sincere indeed (as I said already back there). So Boro's attack looked to me like a wolf noticing a possible pray who has made herself vulnerable, and jumping for it. It's hard to see evil in a game, but it felt like a malvolent intent there.

...You're kidding. Who are you and what have you done with Nogrod?! That's so unlike what you'd normally say that I'm almost forced to look for a reason why you'd be protecting G55.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But something I feel uneasy with her is in her post where she answers Rikae about G55. It is kind of, how would you say it, like a child who wants to play nice for mom even if she hasn't been good lately. When mom asks, she immediately answers - finds an answer she hasn't herself picked up before but is kind of "good enough" to be an answer, and gives it just like that. And then mom pats her head and doesn't ask nasty questions any more.

Does anyone get what I mean?

Re: Lottie answering Rikae. Well, to me it looks like Lottie received a question directed at her, and answered it, like a normal person. I don't really see much wrong with that.

Pitch has a reaction that's remarkably similar to Nogrod's about G55 in #75. Somehow, though, it feels just like normal Pitch to me.

Aaaand that's all I've got for Page 2. Moving on...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I agree with basically everything Lottie says in #83.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I agree, that would indeed be a good place for baddies to hide. I still think Steve seems suspicious, though.

I may have just missed it, but could you say why?

Originally Posted by Legate

Rather the later. If I wanted to be honest, I would say I *am* suspicious of him now: however, there is little of what one would call "wolfiness" about him. I mean, he is not manipulating people or stuff like that, he is just totally weird. Now, with his last post in which he basically did nothing but quoted me, he did not still answer my question - even though he tried, apparently! He answered with the very same thing we all know already and which he had said already four times over. We know what you meant by saying that acolyte discussion blah blah, Zil, but all I wanted to hear is why you had been proposing focusing instead of debating the Acolyte on catching Wolves, yet failed to lead by example, or if not lead, then at least try! I wonder which part of that have I not made clear enough...

Well... in Inzil's post here -

Originally Posted by Inzil

All right, here it is: The discussion itself regarding the Acolyte wasn't, in my opinion, all that productive. We just don't have a lot of hard evidence, so I didn't want that to just go on and on all Day. What I was waiting for was reactions to our interplay over the matter. That's useful.

- he pretty well answers that, in my opinion. So why mention it yet again? Legate, you do realize you've been doing basically the same thing as what you say Inzil's been doing, right?

Boro's several recent posts - they give off an interesting "sure, suspect me for that, okay, whatever" vibe (regarding Legate saying Boro's being too nice for normal-Boro.) Sidenote - you've seen Boro in a game with Phantom before, right? He's basically a lapdog!

Anyway, that doesn't really bother me, except that I've done the same thing when I was a wolf in hopes that whatever "reason" I was ignoring would just go away.

Bom at #94... -shakes head- There's really nothing more irritating than people that do this. But I won't harp.

Also, Inzil at #96 - all the talk about you apparently not just posting "empty posts" and you post something like this? Man...

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Ironically, I'm really not liking the look of Inzil now. I didn't find his play suspicious before, just very weird, but now, not only has he not even attempted to explain his actions, he's tried to claim I'm suspicious for pointing them out.

He's explained himself twice. I find it interesting that you missed both instances, and I find it even more interesting that you're finding Inzil this suspicious right after A) he starts getting votes (Rikae's in particular) and B) he votes for you.


And that's me caught up, looks like. I'll have a post on what all this actually makes me think in a moment.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Leaning Very Innocent:
Shasta - Duh.

Leaning Innocent:
Boro - Two major reasons: one, I agree with him regarding G55; two, he's getting what seems to be a rather large amount of suspicion from people I'm currently suspicious of.

Rikae - I debated with myself for a bit before putting her here, instead of "No read", because she has been posting. It may be that her posts stick out less in my mind because they aren't gigantic walls of text; everything she's said thus far looks fairly ship-shape. I don't know that I agree with her vote, but she hasn't said anything that's made me think her overtly suspicious.

Pitch - Nothing Pitch has done today has really set off any alarm bells for me. Even though he's said a fair bit today, he almost went under the radar for me because I just remember him saying a fair bit without actually remembering much of the content - except when he argued a bit with Nogrod. I remember concentrating on that part especially.

Lottie - Like Boro, has been taking some heat from other people I find more suspicious. She's also said quite a bit that I happen to agree with. I don't find her suspicious at the moment.

Leaning Worse than Innocent, Better than Guilty:
Steve - Was tending to think him more innocent than not until his most recent post against Inzil. A lot about that post looks odd, especially the timing of it.

Greenie - Not a lot here to go on, but more than anyone in the "Not Leaning at All" category. I don't really agree with her vote.

Inzil - I'm not certain that he's an innocent. That said, there are some indicators that he was the target of a witchhunt today, for good or ill (I'm leaning ill, myself.)

Leaning Guilty:
G55 - I was fine with her until she exploded earlier. After that, I felt like her clarification of said explosion was basically used to make people more confident of her innocence ("A wolf wouldn't act like that," etc).

Lommy - I was on the same page with her regarding the Lottie/Inzil Case of the Ambiguous Posts until Inzil mentioned that he was talking about something completely different. I thought that was the end of it until Lommy began talking about ways that that made Lottie look bad in a way that almost looked like she was looking for support.

Nogrod - I admit, most of the reason he's in this category is his apparent connection to G55, whom I also find suspicious. His reaction to and subsequent defense of her was so incredibly counter to normal Nogrod that I just can't see that being his real thoughts on the matter.

Legate - The apparent leader of what has looked to me like a witchhunt on Inzil. Apparently missed it the first time Inzil explained himself, and hasn't posted since he explained it the second time. Still, the fact that he mentioned in the beginning that what he was saying wasn't a point against Inzil, and didn't change his mind until a fair number of people seemed to share his ideas, looks bad to me.

Not Leaning at All:
Sally
Pomegranate
Eruhen
Bom


I will likely end up voting someone in the "Guilty" category today.

[Nogrod]

If anyone is willing to help Bom with his suicide I'd be happy to lend a hand there.

So, we ranted too little about these no-trace votes (or we should have made the rant wider). I mean a self vote is as bad as a declared random vote in that they result in the same: there's no way of saying whom the person really wished to vote for (or whom he didn't want to vote) - or whom he faked wishing to vote for or not to vote for. Declared intentions concerning one's votes + the votes themselves are the bread and butter of this game, voting randomly or self-voting is effectively denying others the info. And thus something the wolves would love to hide in if it was looked on as having no consequences. Therefore I'm actually half-serious in proposing we lynch Bom toDay.

The other thing that makes me half-serious with it, is what Bom has actually posted.

There are four posts by him.

In first (#22) he agrees with G55 (and all others) about the Acolyte discussion.

In the second one (#56) he says Rikae and G55 look innocentish, with no explanation whatsoever (well, he adds as a kind of softening that he finds G55 always innocent and wonders why is that). Then he does what I'd describe as piling onto the Leg/Zil -controversy saying that's the thing he finds interesting, though he will not himself have time to look at it.

In his third post (#64) he dislikes Greenie's vote but backtracks immediately saying he will not vote for Greenie as she will not be around to explain anymore.

Then he votes himself (#94) because "I don't seem to be in danger of being lynched".


The only problem I have with all this (and why I'm only half-serious) is that I'm afraid an innocent Bom could play just like this as well. And there are some I think we have some reasons to believe are not having our best in mind anyway. Heh, and I'm not so sure anymorfe why I used such a long time into this rant which begins with let's lynch Bom and then ends up with, well, maybe let's not...

Well, a fair 1½ hours until the DL. I'll try to make sense of a few things (Lommy-suspicion and Inzil's behaviour at least).

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Steve - Was tending to think him more innocent than not until his most recent post against Inzil. A lot about that post looks odd, especially the timing of it.

What's odd about the timing? It's when I woke up to find that Zil had started a poorly-reasoned accusation of me.

[Thinlómien]

So, copypasted from Nerwen:

A Little Green ––> Boro
Lottie ––> Lommy
Bom Tombadillo ––> Self
Galadriel55 ––> Lommy (2)
Inziladun ––> Eönwë
Rikae ––> Inziladun
Sally ––> Eönwë (2)
Eruhen ––> Lommy (3)

...nice. I don't know where all this suspicion on Eönwë came from (to me he looks pretty harmless this far), also I find the size of the bulk of suspicion piled on me (ok I'll phrase it less poetically next time!) confuses me too. I can understand Lottie, who's been suspecting me quite consistently (although misguidedly), an even G55 follows a sort of line of thought but Eruhen? Where did that come from? That was pure bandwagoning, methinks.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Lommy, which of my points seem "weird" to you?

Mostly it's this one: that the wolves would be afraid to give the villagers ideas. We have less knowledge than them (at least about who's who, possibly about the acolyte too if s/he's for example a sort of cursed), there's quite many more of us than of them and 90% of the time it's them who scheme and lie and do false reveals and stuff, not us. So it's unlikely they can accidentally give us ideas that we haven't thought of yet (because there are more of us thinking) and which we can put to use (because we are not likely to make some schemes including falsehoods that would profit from a prior speculation in any specific direction, also as we don't know who's who we have much harder time making a whole picture of the game). Furthermore, if a wolf said something that profited the village, s/he would immediately look more innocent to many, so it might even be a good idea for them. So I don't see why the wolves would be afraid of giving us ideas.

Then there's also your focus on mostly Legate-Zil back-and-forth (which ok maybe isn't a "point"), which feels sidetracked to me, maybe intentionally so. I don't understand how it became the major issue for toDay. (And this is not directed to just you, but to everybody.)

Originally Posted by Pitch

Legate, one thing I'd like to be clear about - if, as you say, you weren't accusing Zil when all this started, are you accusing him now or is your insistence merely scientific interest in his thought processes?

Originally Posted by Shasta

This is an awfully fervent announcement. I'm curious now, Lommy, of what you think of Bom's self-vote.

You need to ask? Sorry, Bom, but your vote was ridiculous. If you're innocent, you're just playing for the wolves by 1) intentionally voting an innocent, 2) making an enigmatic vote which makes it harder for us to figure out whether you're innocent or not. You don't always have strong suspicions but you always have some, and you just have to act on them and stand behind them, even though you are wrong sometimes. Voting randomly (including randomly voting self) is just cowardly. Lastly, a piece of advice - next time remember you might not have been in danger of getting lynched but making a vote like that may make that danger actual by making people want to vote you.

End rant. If I put my principles aside, Bom's vote is not really anything I can make conclusions on, because it all comes down to whether Bom would dare to do something like that as a wolf or not. I don't know him well enough to say. (In this kind of cases, though, I tend to give people the benefit of doubt ie. assume their daring.)

Originally Posted by Shasta

Okay... Lottie's post was pretty obviously a joke to me, given that it's Lottie (and given the wink smiley.) So you're thinking it's Lottie, not Inzil who looks weird there? But I thought you were just thinking it was Inzil (see above)? If that's the case, then you look like you're scrambling to make the same evidence fit a different theory now that your first one's been debunked, if that makes sense. Right now, that looks bad.

You quoted me yourself in an earlier post:

Originally Posted by me

I'm not sure which is worse, Lottie pointing it out as a suspicious passage, or Zil implying it's a good point.

To me, they both looked suspicious in the beginning.

Lottie for making a playful (and thus easy to drop) accusation - I don't care if it was a joke, what matters is that she said it and she can't have been unconscious of the fact that she was portraying in a suspicious light something other people may latch on later. I do the same sometimes, I see something that looks a little like a slip to me and that I find funny, so I jokingly quote it - but I wouldn't draw attention to it if I found it 100% unsuspicious. That's why I think suspicions like that are never fully jokes, even when presented playfully.

As for Zil, I thought he read Lottie's playful accusation as a good point and was commenting on that when he said that it has now be proven something can be made out of the acolyte discussion. Turns out I was wrong, and he was referring to something else, so my suspicion on Zil based on the Pitch-Lottie-Zil was totally misguided as there was no Pitch-Lottie-Zil incident (except in my imagination), it was only a Pitch-Lottie incident. However that doesn't mean I'm not suspicious of Zil in general, because he has been acting weird [use of word intentional ].


edit: xed with Shasta's last, Nog and Steve

[Eönwë]

Also, I have about half an hour left to vote, so I'm going to need to make decision soon.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Last game was Pomegranate's first, as far as WW here, although I believe she said she was familiar with the premise of the game. Anyway, she definitely was in the "impressed me" group...oh maybe I shouldn't say that...makes me too nice still.

Was not one of the frequent posters, but when she did it was always stocked to the brim with insight and good observations. Ahh, again, I really need to stop this complimenting thing...eh whatever, it's the truth.

Well, now you are jokingly putting yourself in the role of the one who is "made being nice", yet still doing the stuff, what am I supposed to make out of that? Are you trying to stick to it in order not to be ? I mean, I prefer civilized discussion to violent outbursts, but in a way it would make me much more comfortable if you'd, as we say in Khand, "show some guts, man..."

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Legate, I didn't have to "lead by example" to move things away from the Acolyte: it happened on its own, and people started reacting to the two of us instead. I really didn't see it as all that complex.

All right. But I sincerely doubt that was your original plan. Also, I recall you having this cryptic line "so it serves also different purpose, interesting..." or something along these lines, it implied that you were surprised (or so it seemed to me) by that it stirred something else. Anyway, okay, if that was the point - however now of course I have to start wondering if this is not just secondary explanation of your behavior which you made up later (whereas of course then I'd have to ask myself what purpose did you originally have). All right all right, I think I could put this matter at rest finally, next time I'd like more clarity in your actions, though.

Originally Posted by Zil

I've played one game with Pom/Nate, and she was innocent then. She proved herself to be a sharp player indeed.

That said, it's funny how the one post from her thus far was such a parroting of suspicion on someone who already has a vote.

This sounds a bit like Boro now, but whatever...

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

*sigh* Well, I'd say that I'm off for a bit and will return before bed with a vote, but I know how this works. I'm going to get caught up in whatever else I end up doing and forget to vote.

So. I've still got no suspicions great enough to act on, and I don't seem to be in danger of being lynched.

++Bom Tombadillo

I think Nogrod had just said the same thing I thought when I saw this vote - now whoever it was who had been criticising the "unnecessary" elaborations of mine and Nog's about the random votes, THIS is exactly the case. Okay, the vote is not "random" in its typical sense - but it is irresponsible, which is the point both me and Nog have raised in our posts very strongly. Okay, maybe it is responsible in the sense that Bom does not want to do "random harm", so he chooses himself instead. But still, it would have been far better if he could choose at least some "top" suspect. I mean, it's Day 1.

But it's also Bom and somehow I can accept this behavior from him. I would however strongly discourage this incident to repeat, especially not on further Day than Day 1...

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

During the Day I decided whom I'm not voting for. I don't know who I will vote for. Between Lommy and Boro (both of which, coincidentally, have votes) I am leaning more towards Lommy. My uneasiness with her comes from the content of what she said, whereas with Boro it is with how he says it. Yeah, I'll call that my final decision.

Just for further reference - I wonder if, in case Lommy is perchance innocent and Boro is perchance Wolf, there might not be attempt to save Boro by people voting Lommy. But that shall be seen.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

- he pretty well answers that, in my opinion. So why mention it yet again? Legate, you do realize you've been doing basically the same thing as what you say Inzil's been doing, right?

Well possibly I did not see or understand that when he had said it last time - you understand what my point was, do you? My point was that I wanted him to answer why he proposed something yet failed to act on it. It was not suspicious behavior, it only bothered me because it did not make any sense. What I saw was this: You preach something but you don't act upon it, somebody points it out to you, yet you reply again with preaching and doing nothing, and not even reply about why you don't do anything. That fact - not answering - was the grain of the only suspicious thing I had found in the whole affair. Suspicious is when you start making up fake explanations of your actions or (as it had seemed to me in this case) avoiding giving explanations for them at all. That's in short the whole "case".

For now (see above) I take Inzil's explanation now that he had stated himself clearly, however, I still don't trust him completely as I am not sure whether it isn't just a post-made-explanation (see above again), but right now I am putting the thing more in the "odd" shelf than into "wolf" shelf, but I might still be watching him.

Okay - and that's it. So I think I will vote pretty close to DL, because exactly around DL I have to leave; but I will certainly hang around now, generally...

EDIT: x-ed after Nog's last

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Two more things. Sally looks actually rather fine to me now, and while I am slightly suspicious of Lommy, I would not want to lynch her toDay. Also, now looking at the tally, I seem to have missed Eruhen's vote and his reasoning for it. Need to check back.

[Thinlómien]

So, who I could vote

(well, basically anyone if it's between them and me)

but I'd like to vote

Eruhen - joining a bandwagon out of nowhere and leaving without an explanation could be an inexperienced wolf trying to make a safe vote while pressed by RL hurries.
Bom - but his might be pure malicious inspiration to teach him a lesson about self-voting.
Lottie - I still don't like her comment about Pitch, and her misguided crsade against me and touchiness are also stuff I don't like.

or maybe

Boro - his reaction to the suspicions against him, the way he is apologetic, doesn't really sit right with me.
Sally - although I like the limericks she's not very silly, and her suspicions seem somehow half-hearted and lazy. There's something slightly fishy with her manner in this game.
G55 - doesn't really sit right with me, but this may well be knee-jerk.
Zil - is weird.
Pitch - is a little defensive, not very agreeable. Could be a Pitchwolf trying to change tactics? Something dishonest there maybe.


edit: xed with two legs (ha ha)

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Two more things. Sally looks actually rather fine to me now, and while I am slightly suspicious of Lommy, I would not want to lynch her toDay. Also, now looking at the tally, I seem to have missed Eruhen's vote and his reasoning for it. Need to check back.

Don't bother, there was no reasoning (none at all). And why not vote me if you find me suspicious?