TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Pitchwife]

So I fell asleep after dinner and wake up when it's nearing bedtime. Good it's not DL yet.

Lommy, which of my points seem "weird" to you?

G55's outburst against Rikae feels pretty genuine to me, and I don't quite get what Boro thinks was so over-the-top about it - I mean, if she had the impression that Rikae was trying to suggest Lottie suspect her, being outraged is an understandable reaction; and as Rikae's post looks just like that on the surface, who's to blame her. (Only, knowing Rikae a bit, that would have been remarkably unsubtle.)

Originally Posted by G55 about Zil

Plus, if he's a wolf, I'd imagine he would have let the Alcolyte speculation run its course instead of jumping into the spotlight himself.

That's actually a good point. Wolves usually love discussing rules and technicalities rather than discussing people, they're great for talking a lot without saying much.

Legate, one thing I'd like to be clear about - if, as you say, you weren't accusing Zil when all this started, are you accusing him now or is your insistence merely scientific interest in his thought processes?

Originally Posted by Nog

Which immediately led me to think that his role as a Gondorian-wolfie was showing through...

You want to read up on the Corsairs of Umbar. We're the only pure Gondorians left - that rabble up north are just mudbloods.

Originally Posted by Nog

The second thing that bothered me there early on was him accusing both Rikae and Eönwë piling onto easy suspicion (the Legate - Zil thingy) when looking at their posts that clearly isn't the case.

Isn't it?

Originally Posted by Rikae #27

I agree with Legate on the importance of simply starting conversation [...] In that vein, I don't much care for Inzil and Bom's empty posts

Originally Posted by Eönwë #31

Ok, what I don't like is how Inzil managed to change the discussion about the Acolyte into meta-discussion.

How would you describe what's going on here?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nog

So she admits there was an attack but that her "poke" just didn't actually end up having anything to do with it?

No, what Lottie is saying is that Zil's post that followed hers didn't have anything to do with her poke/attack/whateveryouwannacallit, unlike Lommy had supposed.
FWIW, I was mildly annoyed by Lottie's failure to get my sarcasm, but I didn't think of it as an "attack" until Lommy, ironically, blew it up into one.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Lottie always seems suspicious on Day 1, so it's no surprise that she does now, but with the whole late meta-discussion comment I mentioned before as well as some of the other points people have brought against her, she seems worse than usual. But I don't know if a wolf would be so bold so early on.

In which way would you say has Lottie acted like a bold wolf? I fail to see where she's done anything particularly bold yet.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pitch

Isn't it?

How would you describe what's going on here?

I'd describe them just as what they stand for.

So, Rikae is saying that Legate is right in stating that there should be conversation (defending the Acolyte discussion), and that she disagrees with the way Zil & Bom post empty posts (aka posts that don't get us any further, I guess?)

Eönwë is saying that he doesn't like the way Zil turned the Acolyte discussion into a meta discussion - whether that is true or false as I'm not sure it was Zil (or him alone) who turned the discussion off the Acolyte (or whether it was bad that Acolyte discussion finally ended).

But "piling onto easy suspicion in the Legate - Inzil case"? Nope.

To me those doing it are the ones who jump on it (the "controversy" between the two) and parrot things like "that is the interesting thing toDay" - implying that we should concentrate on them. That's "piling up" for me. Pointing at that discusiion as being the one to pay heed to (while ignoring other possibilities).

Some did do that, but I think not Rikae or Eönwë.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Isn't it?
How would you describe what's going on here?

Do I need to explain myself again? I didn't like the acolyte discussion because it meant everyone could hide under the veil of "This discussion is better than nothing, at least later we can look back on it" (see my earlier post). I'm still not sure what Inzil was getting at, but by reiterating his side so many times, he gave more justification for people to argue the side that already has general consensus, and so no, I didn't like that because it gives the wolves a place to hide.
Just because something doesn't automatically make him evil, it doesn't mean I have to like what he's doing, does it?
You can try to misrepresent my argument (twice) if you want, but I think it's clear in the context of the rest of my post that this is what I was getting at.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Eönwë is saying that he doesn't like the way Zil turned the Acolyte discussion into a meta discussion - whether that is true or false as I'm not sure it was Zil (or him alone) who turned the discussion off the Acolyte (or whether it was bad that Acolyte discussion finally ended).

Inzil made three posts that essentially said "Let's not talk about the Acolyte and focus on finding the wolves" while making no suggestions about how such a thing might be done. The actual Acolyte discussion is irrelevant.



Ironically, I'm really not liking the look of Inzil now. I didn't find his play suspicious before, just very weird, but now, not only has he not even attempted to explain his actions, he's tried to claim I'm suspicious for pointing them out.


I probably actually want to vote for Inzil now. Lottie on a Day 1 is a bad idea, and no one else actually seems lynch-worthy yet.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm here and reading (looks like I very nearly pulled a Kath! )

Also, this deadline is an... interesting one for me.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Shall we all now flock to protect Shasta since the Moddess Goddess's marvelous narration surely leaves no doubt about the identity of the seer?

Shhh!

Originally Posted by Lommy

Given the recent events, I think honour would demand Shasta and I go nilp because of our failures at serving the Empress. Oh woe!

But I never left my post! And besides, all of you know I'd never hurt the Empress!

Originally Posted by Lommy

Speaking of voting, I HATE RANDOM VOTES. THEY DON'T SERVE THE VILLAGE IN ANY WAY. DON'T MAKE THEM IF YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE ME ANGRY AND SUSPICIOUS OF YOU.

This is an awfully fervent announcement. I'm curious now, Lommy, of what you think of Bom's self-vote.

As far as speculating on the Acolyte goes, you all know speculating is one of my favorite things. So my personal speculation - it's possible that the Acolyte isn't either innocent-aligned or wolf-aligned, but rather has a win condition entirely their own (survive till the end, get X lynched, et cetera.) Boro's Mythomaniac idea, however, has merit, and I think it's an equally likely possibility.

Legate's #14 seems to be the start of this "Legate/Inzil business I've been reading about. It's also another one of the "hate of random votes" posts. What interests me in it is this quote of Legate's -

Originally Posted by Legate

Now that said, it's nothing against you in particular, Zil (even though I quoted your post)

- which would be all good and well, had it ended there, but Legate keeps going after Zil in #20 -

Originally Posted by Legate

Sure. That was what I gathered. However, as you have seen in my point, it is very nice that you are saying that, but what do you mean by "focus on finding Wolves". Saying "we should be finding Wolves" and finishing the post with that is probably the worst thing one can do. "What you are doing is not exactly what we should be doing, but I am not doing anything else either, I merely dismiss what you are doing but don't do anything new myself." I would therefore urge (if it wasn't clear enough from my previous posts) everyone who says "we shouldn't focus on this and that" not only to say what we should focus on (catching wolves, we ALL know that, of course, once again see what I said in my previous post, what else are we here for? Does anybody seriously think we are here to discuss Acolytes???), but MOST OF ALL to actually DO something, too, and not just talk how things *theoretically* should be done.

- so I think it's a bit strange that Legate continues going after Inzil with a point that he specifically mentioned wasn't a point against Inzil.

There's another interesting bit involving Lommy, Pitch, and G55 - about whether it's wise to speculate on the details of the Acolyte role. Lommy's point about not being sure it's wise to discuss the details of the role if it cooperates with the Seer is a valid one; and I personally agree with Pitch on the matter, that with the possibility that the Acolyte can join the wolf side, there's no harm in talking about it if it might wind up against us - but G55's reaction interests me.

Originally Posted by G55

Yeah, but the wolves are also listening. Personally, I don't want to give them ideas about how to strengthen their side.

I don't understand this reaction. Given that at this time all we have is speculation (and speculation that's likely to be wrong, in any case), I think the benefits of talking about it definitely outweigh any drawbacks, like that of the wolves listening. Let them. If they somehow manage to act on any random theory or idle speculation we've mentioned, and are spectacularly wrong, all the better for us.

Nogrod's #23 is a long, well-written post that doesn't really say much. For one, it's another "hate on random votes" post, and for another, it's his thoughts on the Acolyte. All well and good, but it seems he's replying to something Legate was using against Inzil at the time, which doesn't really fit.

And in a bit of a turnaround, Inzil's #24 is another answer to Legate that's basically been the same as his previous answers. Could be a case of "talking too much yet saying nothing", but I still tend to think Legate is the fishier of the two.

Now, Inzil's response (#26) to Lottie's joke (#25) was a real eyebrow-raiser, the first time I came across it. My first reaction to it was "Inzil's noting that Lottie caught Pitch in a slip!" But then later he says it was something different entirely.

I agree with Lottie's #28, about the random votes. I hate them as much as the next person, but ranting about it serves no purpose (and doesn't stop certain people from doing them, as we've seen.)

In #29, Inzil mentions that Rikae agrees with him and then doesn't like the emptiness of his posts, which looks like an opportunistic kind of "hey, look, that's suspicious" move - except in the post he quotes, Rikae says she agrees with Legate, not Inzil. Interesting.

ADD: Rikae herself mentions that a bit later -

Originally Posted by Rikae

Inzil, as I said, I agree with Legate. Posts that demand people work on catching wolves, rather than work on it themselves, are empty posts.

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Ok, what I don't like is how Inzil managed to change the discussion about the Acolyte into meta-discussion. While the former discussion lets people think about the game ahead and shows people's attitudes now, as well as maybe being interesting to look at in future, this discussion about whether we should discuss it is bad because it's giving everyone a place to hide. Legate replied first, but now everyone's repeating the same thing (which I thought had been general consensus for ages anyway- it was when I last played) about any discussion being better than no discussion.

I'm not saying that Inzil or Legate are bad, but people are too keen to bandwaggon onto that discussion and say nothing of value, while looking active and helpful.

But I'm curious, Zil, what did you have in mind?

...What? You just got through basically reprimanding Inzil for discussion that doesn't accomplish anything, and now you're giving him a license to continue? That's.... awkward, Steve, very awkward indeed.

Originally Posted by Boro

I should also say because the DL doesn't fit my schedule well, I'll most of the time probably have to vote 5-6 hours early. So, whoever is able to keep around at the DL...with double-lynching a factor, please stop this trend of "keep my vote until the last possible second" vote flurry.

I agree with this. Being another of those "will probably have to vote hours ahead of schedule", I would rather not see three people lynched at the same time because of people crossing at DL. However, this is currently subverted by the fact that my sleep schedule is currently wack, and I'll almost definitely actually be here for the DL toDay.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Now, to get down to business, the most interesting thing that has happened so far is between Legate and Zil. Legate is of course right that saying "But we have to catch wolves" is a) easy and b) doesn't achieve anything in actually catching them [plus c) it's more or less saying "look how determined I am to catch wolves, I can't possibly be one"], and also in criticizing Zil for keeping aloof of the Acolyte discussion without suggesting an alternative.

The problem with this is that Zil plunging headlong into a D1 discussion with arguments left right & center is about as likely to happen as Bom starting D1 with a Nogrodesque rallying speech. He has this style of hanging back, observing and biding his time early in the game, and whenever I've suspected him because of it I've been wrong.

That said, Legate's criticism of him looks innocent to me (and the vehemence with which he pursued it just feels un-faked), but I don't like how people regurgitate it now and pile onto an easy suspicion (people meaning Rikae and Eönwë - especially Eönwë who complains about 'people' [no names given] 'bandwaggoning on that discussion' while doing it himself).

Pitch is now the second person to basically say 'Yeah, Legate had a good point on Inzil' (Greenie was the first.) And that bothers me, since Legate specifically said that what he was saying was "nothing against Zil". It's also worth noting that though Pitch apparently agrees with Legate's point, he hangs back a bit with "whenever I've suspected him because of it I've been wrong" - almost in a way that leaves him an out in case an Inzil lynch happens.

G55's post #39 is an incredible overreaction (and yes, that's coming from me, no one's allowed to laugh .) But really, asking someone what they think of you isn't tantamount to "here, make this point against this person for me."


And that's page 1 done. Moving on.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Inzil's #47 is chock-full of fun and games, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Galadriel looked a bit whimsy to begin with but her defence of herself looks pretty genuine.

If you're talking about when she blew up at Rikae, I tend to disagree here (what? Shasta disagrees with Nogrod?) And I tend to disagree with Boro, too, when he mentioned that "that's typical G55." I'm almost certain I've never seen G55 explode like that, and the post she made after to clarify what she was saying (indeed, that she felt like she had to clarify at all) looks suspicious to me.

Also, the fact that it's Nogrod, of all people, defending what seems to be an emotional outburst is an immediate red flag.

Also also -

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think Greenie might be up to something with her suspicion on the behaviour of some with the Legate - Zil -discussion.

I was originally going to say "He's the third, along with Pitch and Greenie!" but then realized he's actually talking about Greenie's later post, which was quite valid. So that's okay then.

Originally Posted by G55

Zil's last post makes him look more innocent than not. He's making sense.

I don't know if I'd go that far.

Originally Posted by Lommy

The thing that caught my attention this far the most was the odd case of Lottie and Zil going against Pitch for saying "in case we manage to lynch our seer early". I mean, come on, that was clearly sarcastic phrasing! I'm not sure which is worse, Lottie pointing it out as a suspicious passage, or Zil implying it's a good point. (Unless Zil was sarcastic too? or referring to something else? I'm talking about #26)

Aha, that's what I was wondering about, as well.

ADD:

Originally Posted by Inzil

Pardon? I don't think I mentioned that bit from Pitch at all.

Lommy at #58.
Inzil at #59.

Okay, sure. Those two posts together, though, made me think the same thing Lommy thought. (Which is weird! )

Originally Posted by Eonwe

And this still means that Lottie looks bandwaggony, and without a good excuse, since it was definitely and definitively resolved by that point, considering that everyone present except Pitchwife and Boro (on which note, Boro has actually said very little of actual substance so far) had voiced their opinion that any discussion was better than no discussion.

I disagree. It looks to me as though Lottie was simply answering Inzil's statement there (look at the wording.)

Originally Posted by Rikae

Now Inzil, come out and claim what you're trying to claim so we can all see how implausible it really is!

-snickers-

Originally Posted by Lottie

That wasn't an attack by any means. It was one semi-banter, playful poke post and one post that didn't actually end up having anything to do with the 'attack'. This seems to me like a Lommy-wolf overreacting to what she perceives as suspicion on her packmate, and responding by agreeing that he's suspicious but also throwing the 'attack' into poor light. I'd like to, first of all, keep a closer look at their interactions, but also note that Lommy is now one of my top suspicions.

Mmm... Personally, I never saw your post as the attack (we are talking about that post with "manage to", right?), but rather I thought Inzil was jumping on it a bit. Lommy appears to have thought the same (see above), until Inzil corrected her, which doesn't seem to be that suspicious to me (as I thought the same). So, are you suspecting Lommy for calling your post the attack, then?

ADD:

Originally Posted by Lommy

Uggh, I should wake up in less than 8h, so better quit ww now. I don't really have much to add - maybe just that I still think Lottie's comment about Pitch sounded like a "lookee, lookee, he made a slip!" and if someone agreed she'd be ready to go "exactly, that's what I said!" but if someone questioned her reasoning she'd be saying "I was just making fun of him". I'll be back well before the DL and vote then based on all the evidence that has piled up while I've been sleeping and attending my morning lecture...

Okay... Lottie's post was pretty obviously a joke to me, given that it's Lottie (and given the wink smiley.) So you're thinking it's Lottie, not Inzil who looks weird there? But I thought you were just thinking it was Inzil (see above)? If that's the case, then you look like you're scrambling to make the same evidence fit a different theory now that your first one's been debunked, if that makes sense. Right now, that looks bad.

In Legate's #68 (and, apparently, in his list from earlier, as I think that's where Eonwe got his quote), he apparently legitimately suspects Inzil? Which, then, looks a bit like a Legatewolf going "Hey, people bought that? Okay, let's go with it!"

I do agree with him about Bom, though. But then I always suspect Bom and want to vote him on principle.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What bothers me about Boro is the way he painted G55 suspicious. To me her strong reaction to Rikae's question for Lottie looked very sincere indeed (as I said already back there). So Boro's attack looked to me like a wolf noticing a possible pray who has made herself vulnerable, and jumping for it. It's hard to see evil in a game, but it felt like a malvolent intent there.

...You're kidding. Who are you and what have you done with Nogrod?! That's so unlike what you'd normally say that I'm almost forced to look for a reason why you'd be protecting G55.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But something I feel uneasy with her is in her post where she answers Rikae about G55. It is kind of, how would you say it, like a child who wants to play nice for mom even if she hasn't been good lately. When mom asks, she immediately answers - finds an answer she hasn't herself picked up before but is kind of "good enough" to be an answer, and gives it just like that. And then mom pats her head and doesn't ask nasty questions any more.

Does anyone get what I mean?

Re: Lottie answering Rikae. Well, to me it looks like Lottie received a question directed at her, and answered it, like a normal person. I don't really see much wrong with that.

Pitch has a reaction that's remarkably similar to Nogrod's about G55 in #75. Somehow, though, it feels just like normal Pitch to me.

Aaaand that's all I've got for Page 2. Moving on...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I agree with basically everything Lottie says in #83.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I agree, that would indeed be a good place for baddies to hide. I still think Steve seems suspicious, though.

I may have just missed it, but could you say why?

Originally Posted by Legate

Rather the later. If I wanted to be honest, I would say I *am* suspicious of him now: however, there is little of what one would call "wolfiness" about him. I mean, he is not manipulating people or stuff like that, he is just totally weird. Now, with his last post in which he basically did nothing but quoted me, he did not still answer my question - even though he tried, apparently! He answered with the very same thing we all know already and which he had said already four times over. We know what you meant by saying that acolyte discussion blah blah, Zil, but all I wanted to hear is why you had been proposing focusing instead of debating the Acolyte on catching Wolves, yet failed to lead by example, or if not lead, then at least try! I wonder which part of that have I not made clear enough...

Well... in Inzil's post here -

Originally Posted by Inzil

All right, here it is: The discussion itself regarding the Acolyte wasn't, in my opinion, all that productive. We just don't have a lot of hard evidence, so I didn't want that to just go on and on all Day. What I was waiting for was reactions to our interplay over the matter. That's useful.

- he pretty well answers that, in my opinion. So why mention it yet again? Legate, you do realize you've been doing basically the same thing as what you say Inzil's been doing, right?

Boro's several recent posts - they give off an interesting "sure, suspect me for that, okay, whatever" vibe (regarding Legate saying Boro's being too nice for normal-Boro.) Sidenote - you've seen Boro in a game with Phantom before, right? He's basically a lapdog!

Anyway, that doesn't really bother me, except that I've done the same thing when I was a wolf in hopes that whatever "reason" I was ignoring would just go away.

Bom at #94... -shakes head- There's really nothing more irritating than people that do this. But I won't harp.

Also, Inzil at #96 - all the talk about you apparently not just posting "empty posts" and you post something like this? Man...

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Ironically, I'm really not liking the look of Inzil now. I didn't find his play suspicious before, just very weird, but now, not only has he not even attempted to explain his actions, he's tried to claim I'm suspicious for pointing them out.

He's explained himself twice. I find it interesting that you missed both instances, and I find it even more interesting that you're finding Inzil this suspicious right after A) he starts getting votes (Rikae's in particular) and B) he votes for you.


And that's me caught up, looks like. I'll have a post on what all this actually makes me think in a moment.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Leaning Very Innocent:
Shasta - Duh.

Leaning Innocent:
Boro - Two major reasons: one, I agree with him regarding G55; two, he's getting what seems to be a rather large amount of suspicion from people I'm currently suspicious of.

Rikae - I debated with myself for a bit before putting her here, instead of "No read", because she has been posting. It may be that her posts stick out less in my mind because they aren't gigantic walls of text; everything she's said thus far looks fairly ship-shape. I don't know that I agree with her vote, but she hasn't said anything that's made me think her overtly suspicious.

Pitch - Nothing Pitch has done today has really set off any alarm bells for me. Even though he's said a fair bit today, he almost went under the radar for me because I just remember him saying a fair bit without actually remembering much of the content - except when he argued a bit with Nogrod. I remember concentrating on that part especially.

Lottie - Like Boro, has been taking some heat from other people I find more suspicious. She's also said quite a bit that I happen to agree with. I don't find her suspicious at the moment.

Leaning Worse than Innocent, Better than Guilty:
Steve - Was tending to think him more innocent than not until his most recent post against Inzil. A lot about that post looks odd, especially the timing of it.

Greenie - Not a lot here to go on, but more than anyone in the "Not Leaning at All" category. I don't really agree with her vote.

Inzil - I'm not certain that he's an innocent. That said, there are some indicators that he was the target of a witchhunt today, for good or ill (I'm leaning ill, myself.)

Leaning Guilty:
G55 - I was fine with her until she exploded earlier. After that, I felt like her clarification of said explosion was basically used to make people more confident of her innocence ("A wolf wouldn't act like that," etc).

Lommy - I was on the same page with her regarding the Lottie/Inzil Case of the Ambiguous Posts until Inzil mentioned that he was talking about something completely different. I thought that was the end of it until Lommy began talking about ways that that made Lottie look bad in a way that almost looked like she was looking for support.

Nogrod - I admit, most of the reason he's in this category is his apparent connection to G55, whom I also find suspicious. His reaction to and subsequent defense of her was so incredibly counter to normal Nogrod that I just can't see that being his real thoughts on the matter.

Legate - The apparent leader of what has looked to me like a witchhunt on Inzil. Apparently missed it the first time Inzil explained himself, and hasn't posted since he explained it the second time. Still, the fact that he mentioned in the beginning that what he was saying wasn't a point against Inzil, and didn't change his mind until a fair number of people seemed to share his ideas, looks bad to me.

Not Leaning at All:
Sally
Pomegranate
Eruhen
Bom


I will likely end up voting someone in the "Guilty" category today.

[Nogrod]

If anyone is willing to help Bom with his suicide I'd be happy to lend a hand there.

So, we ranted too little about these no-trace votes (or we should have made the rant wider). I mean a self vote is as bad as a declared random vote in that they result in the same: there's no way of saying whom the person really wished to vote for (or whom he didn't want to vote) - or whom he faked wishing to vote for or not to vote for. Declared intentions concerning one's votes + the votes themselves are the bread and butter of this game, voting randomly or self-voting is effectively denying others the info. And thus something the wolves would love to hide in if it was looked on as having no consequences. Therefore I'm actually half-serious in proposing we lynch Bom toDay.

The other thing that makes me half-serious with it, is what Bom has actually posted.

There are four posts by him.

In first (#22) he agrees with G55 (and all others) about the Acolyte discussion.

In the second one (#56) he says Rikae and G55 look innocentish, with no explanation whatsoever (well, he adds as a kind of softening that he finds G55 always innocent and wonders why is that). Then he does what I'd describe as piling onto the Leg/Zil -controversy saying that's the thing he finds interesting, though he will not himself have time to look at it.

In his third post (#64) he dislikes Greenie's vote but backtracks immediately saying he will not vote for Greenie as she will not be around to explain anymore.

Then he votes himself (#94) because "I don't seem to be in danger of being lynched".


The only problem I have with all this (and why I'm only half-serious) is that I'm afraid an innocent Bom could play just like this as well. And there are some I think we have some reasons to believe are not having our best in mind anyway. Heh, and I'm not so sure anymorfe why I used such a long time into this rant which begins with let's lynch Bom and then ends up with, well, maybe let's not...

Well, a fair 1½ hours until the DL. I'll try to make sense of a few things (Lommy-suspicion and Inzil's behaviour at least).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Last game was Pomegranate's first, as far as WW here, although I believe she said she was familiar with the premise of the game. Anyway, she definitely was in the "impressed me" group...oh maybe I shouldn't say that...makes me too nice still.

Was not one of the frequent posters, but when she did it was always stocked to the brim with insight and good observations. Ahh, again, I really need to stop this complimenting thing...eh whatever, it's the truth.

Well, now you are jokingly putting yourself in the role of the one who is "made being nice", yet still doing the stuff, what am I supposed to make out of that? Are you trying to stick to it in order not to be ? I mean, I prefer civilized discussion to violent outbursts, but in a way it would make me much more comfortable if you'd, as we say in Khand, "show some guts, man..."

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Legate, I didn't have to "lead by example" to move things away from the Acolyte: it happened on its own, and people started reacting to the two of us instead. I really didn't see it as all that complex.

All right. But I sincerely doubt that was your original plan. Also, I recall you having this cryptic line "so it serves also different purpose, interesting..." or something along these lines, it implied that you were surprised (or so it seemed to me) by that it stirred something else. Anyway, okay, if that was the point - however now of course I have to start wondering if this is not just secondary explanation of your behavior which you made up later (whereas of course then I'd have to ask myself what purpose did you originally have). All right all right, I think I could put this matter at rest finally, next time I'd like more clarity in your actions, though.

Originally Posted by Zil

I've played one game with Pom/Nate, and she was innocent then. She proved herself to be a sharp player indeed.

That said, it's funny how the one post from her thus far was such a parroting of suspicion on someone who already has a vote.

This sounds a bit like Boro now, but whatever...

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

*sigh* Well, I'd say that I'm off for a bit and will return before bed with a vote, but I know how this works. I'm going to get caught up in whatever else I end up doing and forget to vote.

So. I've still got no suspicions great enough to act on, and I don't seem to be in danger of being lynched.

++Bom Tombadillo

I think Nogrod had just said the same thing I thought when I saw this vote - now whoever it was who had been criticising the "unnecessary" elaborations of mine and Nog's about the random votes, THIS is exactly the case. Okay, the vote is not "random" in its typical sense - but it is irresponsible, which is the point both me and Nog have raised in our posts very strongly. Okay, maybe it is responsible in the sense that Bom does not want to do "random harm", so he chooses himself instead. But still, it would have been far better if he could choose at least some "top" suspect. I mean, it's Day 1.

But it's also Bom and somehow I can accept this behavior from him. I would however strongly discourage this incident to repeat, especially not on further Day than Day 1...

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

During the Day I decided whom I'm not voting for. I don't know who I will vote for. Between Lommy and Boro (both of which, coincidentally, have votes) I am leaning more towards Lommy. My uneasiness with her comes from the content of what she said, whereas with Boro it is with how he says it. Yeah, I'll call that my final decision.

Just for further reference - I wonder if, in case Lommy is perchance innocent and Boro is perchance Wolf, there might not be attempt to save Boro by people voting Lommy. But that shall be seen.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

- he pretty well answers that, in my opinion. So why mention it yet again? Legate, you do realize you've been doing basically the same thing as what you say Inzil's been doing, right?

Well possibly I did not see or understand that when he had said it last time - you understand what my point was, do you? My point was that I wanted him to answer why he proposed something yet failed to act on it. It was not suspicious behavior, it only bothered me because it did not make any sense. What I saw was this: You preach something but you don't act upon it, somebody points it out to you, yet you reply again with preaching and doing nothing, and not even reply about why you don't do anything. That fact - not answering - was the grain of the only suspicious thing I had found in the whole affair. Suspicious is when you start making up fake explanations of your actions or (as it had seemed to me in this case) avoiding giving explanations for them at all. That's in short the whole "case".

For now (see above) I take Inzil's explanation now that he had stated himself clearly, however, I still don't trust him completely as I am not sure whether it isn't just a post-made-explanation (see above again), but right now I am putting the thing more in the "odd" shelf than into "wolf" shelf, but I might still be watching him.

Okay - and that's it. So I think I will vote pretty close to DL, because exactly around DL I have to leave; but I will certainly hang around now, generally...

EDIT: x-ed after Nog's last

[Nogrod]

Okay. It was a second post I wrote on Zil - and a second time I had to decide I will not post it (for a slightly different reason this time). You make me mad Inzil! And I kind of wish to join Rikae in checking your bluff.


So Lommy "stretches points", uses the word "weird" too often and "defends Pitch" (which is then corrected as a misunderstanding)? Her guilt seems only too obvious...

I mean really?

So Eruhen's vote looks like bandwagoning in major scale and G55's a possible one. Actually, I found an interesting point from back there

Originally Posted by G55

The only other person that is closer to being a suspect is Lommy. I've said very little about her, but there has been some talk about her with which I agree.

That is said after she speculates whether Lottie or Boro might be wolves. Finally she decides to vote Lommy

Originally Posted by G55

I am leaning more towards Lommy. My uneasiness with her comes from the content of what she said, whereas with Boro it is with how he says it. Yeah, I'll call that my final decision.

So with the content "there has been some talk about" but which she is not opening up in any way...

I might be getting second thoughts about the sincerity of her outburst back there as this looks much like a wolf in trouble trying to find someone to vote.