TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Rikae]

Greenie's vote for Boro looks more or less ok to me, precisely because it is so out-of-the-blue and gut-feelingish, if you get what I mean. Not to say that it's wabbit season or anything, but Greenie herself seems all right.

Eönwë is sort of blending into the background, and he seems to be doing it by hanging around in the thicket of meta-discussion, poking at multiple people while refraining from singling anyone out in a way that might attract too much attention. I'm going to keep my eye on him.

EDIT: X'd with a Nog.

[Nogrod]

Lottie then. (I'm checking people that I've had some bad feelings about one by one - if my method of picking just a few people at the time does seem a bit odd)

She admits her "manage to kill the seer" -note was semi-banter, but the way she phrases it looks interesting.

It was one semi-banter, playful poke post and one post that didn't actually end up having anything to do with the 'attack'

So she admits there was an attack but that her "poke" just didn't actually end up having anything to do with it? Okay. This might be a linguistic issue (non-native speaker here) and you should correct me if I'm wrong, but to me that phrasing looks pretty odd.

Her rant against random-vote talk and the implication that the ones doing it are just filling space with nothing to say while trying to look helpful is clearly misguided for two reasons (read these Lottie)
1) That talk needs to be made in every game so that random votes don't happen. And it needs to be stated in no unplain terms. After it is done and the general mood is outspoken, no wolf wishes to dare a random vote. It's called "performative use of language" in linguistics and philosophy of language: saying things make them happen. Not saying it loudly enough leaves room for different behaviours (and sadly I'm not convinced our rant was enough for no one to try a declared random vote but well, we'l see about that).
2) Of all people you say that Legate and I are the ones who try to hunker down and stay ambivalent and just fill space with saying nothing! Really?
Really?

And well, like Eönwë pointed out, it seems pretty funny she is unhappy with people filling space with "self-evidencies" and does it herself adding the N'th explanation why the Acolyte discussion is okay... But well, most of us are guilty of that this Day. (It's been a weird Day in that. )

But something I feel uneasy with her is in her post where she answers Rikae about G55. It is kind of, how would you say it, like a child who wants to play nice for mom even if she hasn't been good lately. When mom asks, she immediately answers - finds an answer she hasn't herself picked up before but is kind of "good enough" to be an answer, and gives it just like that. And then mom pats her head and doesn't ask nasty questions any more.

Does anyone get what I mean?

Also, I think she is over-reacting to Lommy's suspicions, to put it mildly

If I'd been loudly proclaiming that someone was absolutely undeniably guilty, then the grasping at straws argument would hold water

But like Inzil, I find her first and foremost acting strangely. In Lottie's case that would mean being very jumpy at times and at the other time poking here and there...


I see Inzil has posted... enough right now, back soon.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Greenie's vote for Boro looks more or less ok to me, precisely because it is so out-of-the-blue and gut-feelingish, if you get what I mean. Not to say that it's wabbit season or anything, but Greenie herself seems all right.

Yeah, not exactly happy that acknowledging a person's good observation makes you too nice to not be evil, but it doesn't look like a bad/wolfy vote.

Originally Posted by G55

Lommy relies heavily on the word "weird" in her impressions post, a word that I find terribly undescriptive. I doubt anyone has any strong impressions, but "weird" is too vague a way of phrasing it. That ticked my radar.

Weird is a pretty common Lommyism. I know, because I've harped on her before to stop using it if she's suspecting someone.

Originally Posted by G55

This may have been an impression left by the Lottie-suspicion, but she does feel odd.

(bold my emphasis).

See my point? It's impossible to avoid using weird/odd/strange to describe unusual/suspicious behavior.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What bothers me about Boro is the way he painted G55 suspicious. To me her strong reaction to Rikae's question for Lottie looked very sincere indeed (as I said already back there). So Boro's attack looked to me like a wolf noticing a possible pray who has made herself vulnerable, and jumping for it.

Well. Didn't look genuine to me. And perhaps I shouldn't look at it through my eyes, but I've done the same thing time and time again when I've been a wolf. Get too dramatic over the slightest of things. Not that G55 was faking being angry, but playing up being angry to hopefully get suspicion off her. As if her honor had been impugned. I've literally done the same thing, indignicantly objecting to people beating around the bush..."If you suspect me then suspect me!" stuff.

And her defense for the rant comes dow to semantics, not liking the way Rikae phrased the question to Lottie. Now tell me if you think overly-dramatic reactions to stuff like word definitions and the way questions are phrased is genuine?

Edit: Crossed since Inzil's post #72.

[Rikae]

Haha, I just realized I mistook a coyote for a wabbit... that could be a dangerous mistake!

[Pomegranate]

Blood! Panic!. She faints, and it takes this amount of time for her to be waken up by the support of smelling salts and one particularly handsome soldier who has no role in this game whatsoever. She leaves him hoping for something that will never happen while she goes to hunt for spies.

...that is, Real Life will probably make (and has already made) toDay an extremely inactive one for me, apologies for that. With a lot of new players (new to me, that is) it would take a lot more time than I have to make any profound analyses about people. However, to share some gut feelings that were called for:

I agree with Boro seeming slightly less aggressive and energetic than the last time I played with him, enough to seem non-usual. Hence I feel that Greenie's vote was understandable and that makes her send positive vibes for me. Also this kind of non-explained but apparently with some reason behind it -vote seems rather like her.

Lottie seems more productive now than when I've experienced her as a wolf, so this is an opposite case to Boro's.

Love to Nogrod for

It's called "performative use of language" in linguistics and philosophy of language: saying things make them happen. Not saying it loudly enough leaves room for different behaviours (and sadly I'm not convinced our rant was enough for no one to try a declared random vote but well, we'l see about that).

, this relatively new linguistics student got all excited about that point. I think that sounded genuine, though I haven't played with this active Nogrod and I'm assuming he's just the same when he's a wolf. Just as convincing, that is. And I actually do think that there was enough discussion on random votes so that any will now seem relatively suspicious.

G55 jumps, but it seems genuine and I won't hold it against her this time, realising it's probably pretty typical of her.

That is all I've got for now, I'm afraid. Will try to make my way back enough before the deadline so that I'll avoid last-minute votes and still can actually read over things more carefully.

edit. x/ed with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I've done the same thing time and time again when I've been a wolf. Get too dramatic over the slightest of things.
...
Now tell me if you think overly-dramatic reactions to stuff like word definitions and the way questions are phrased is genuine?

That depends a lot on who is doing it, don't you think? If the phantom tried it, I'd not turn half of my ear to him, but if Mith did it, I would be fairly certain it's true.

[Nogrod]

I'm off to bed as well...

I hope there will be a lot of discussion during the night here, especially by those who have been quiet or enigmatic thus far. The DL for me (and other Finns) is 2PM so as I'm on vacation I should have time to both read and take part nicely before it.

Be active.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Lottie always seems suspicious on Day 1, so it's no surprise that she does now, but with the whole late meta-discussion comment I mentioned before as well as some of the other points people have brought against her, she seems worse than usual.

No. Just no. This happens every game. I don't mind the being suspected easily, I've gotten used to that - but if I had a kitten for every time someone says "she's always suspicious, I know that...but she's more suspicious than usual this time"...let's just say my allergies would be killing me.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

1) That talk needs to be made in every game so that random votes don't happen.

Then why isn't it? I wouldn't have even noticed it if it were said every game. It would just be normal. Part of the reason it's so odd-looking is that it is, in fact, abnormal. Just because it 'needs to be said', according to you (which I disagree with, by the way - if a bunch of people post giant blocks of angry text about not randomly voting every game, no one will read them after the first few times. It will cease to have any meaning whatsoever) does not mean I am forbidden to comment on it when, for the first time in my memory, not just one but three people post about it.

And it needs to be stated in no unplain terms. After it is done and the general mood is outspoken, no wolf wishes to dare a random vote. It's called "performative use of language" in linguistics and philosophy of language: saying things make them happen. Not saying it loudly enough leaves room for different behaviours (and sadly I'm not convinced our rant was enough for no one to try a declared random vote but well, we'l see about that).

No. I disagree. Now, I'm not a linguistics and philosophy of language expert, but I do know from experience that just because you say something loud enough doesn't make it happen. Yes, if everyone here posted and said that, no one would random vote, but that's just because everyone would have to agree to post. As it is, clearly some people don't agree, because people do random vote. Ranting loudly won't make them change their minds. It'll just make people skim your posts because your rants are obnoxious.

2) Of all people you say that Legate and I are the ones who try to hunker down and stay ambivalent and just fill space with saying nothing! Really?
Really?

People like Bom and Sally are basically expected to post little to nothing of substance on Day One. You and Legate are not. When people do what I'm not used to them doing, I pay attention more than when they do what I am used to them doing.

But something I feel uneasy with her is in her post where she answers Rikae about G55. It is kind of, how would you say it, like a child who wants to play nice for mom even if she hasn't been good lately. When mom asks, she immediately answers - finds an answer she hasn't herself picked up before but is kind of "good enough" to be an answer, and gives it just like that. And then mom pats her head and doesn't ask nasty questions any more.

But I had noticed it. I just hadn't posted about it yet. When Rikae asked, I figured I might as well flesh out my concern about the post.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

See my point? It's impossible to avoid using weird/odd/strange to describe unusual/suspicious behavior.

I know, I use them too. But to use the same one like 5 times in the same list? All these people can't feel exactly the same to you, can they?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Be active.

Yessir.

I have ~2hours before bedtime, and I have little work left, so I can participate a bit more actively... possibly. If I don't procrastinate.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So, Rikae is saying that Legate is right in stating that there should be conversation (defending the Acolyte discussion), and that she disagrees with the way Zil & Bom post empty posts (aka posts that don't get us any further, I guess?)

Eönwë is saying that he doesn't like the way Zil turned the Acolyte discussion into a meta discussion - whether that is true or false as I'm not sure it was Zil (or him alone) who turned the discussion off the Acolyte (or whether it was bad that Acolyte discussion finally ended).

But "piling onto easy suspicion in the Legate - Inzil case"? Nope.

I do think that Eönwë seemed to leap at the opportunity, but now he's backed off somewhat. Rikae seemed less serious about it from the start.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

To me those doing it are the ones who jump on it (the "controversy" between the two) and parrot things like "that is the interesting thing toDay" - implying that we should concentrate on them. That's "piling up" for me. Pointing at that discusiion as being the one to pay heed to (while ignoring other possibilities).

I agree, that would indeed be a good place for baddies to hide. I still think Steve seems suspicious, though.

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Love to Nogrod for

, this relatively new linguistics student got all excited about that point. I think that sounded genuine, though I haven't played with this active Nogrod and I'm assuming he's just the same when he's a wolf. Just as convincing, that is. And I actually do think that there was enough discussion on random votes so that any will now seem relatively suspicious.

(emphasis mine)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but could you clarify what you meant by the bolded bit?

[Galadriel55]

Somehow my reply to Lottie was eaten up. I am being kicked out from my computer, so I'll repost it later. For now, though -

Originally Posted by Lottie

But I had noticed it. I just hadn't posted about it yet. When Rikae asked, I figured I might as well flesh out my concern about the post.

This doesn't make sense to me. Am I the only one, or does this really make no sense? If you noticed, why did you make a suspicious post? Or if you only noticed later, why didn't you comment "yet"?

I'll elaborate when I get my computer back.

[Galadriel55]

It's time for me to vote, and I really don't know who to vote for. And my vote will not be random, much as I'm tempted to just throw die.

I don't like some of the Lottie-suspicion, but it's too late now for me to start pushing and probing into it. Also, the same people who suspected Lottie made valid reasonable points.

Boro really is being nice. When I played with Borowolf he was not particularly nice (no, you weren't mean, you were just you ), so I can't say that his manner points to lupinity. Maybe he just decided out of the blue to mend his ways.

Can't say I suspect him, but Legate is right about the change in the manner.

The only other person that is closer to being a suspect is Lommy. I've said very little about her, but there has been some talk about her with which I agree. (the only bit of which I don't like is that she made a big deal out of an unexistent attack, which I think was pure misunderstanding on her part.)

During the Day I decided whom I'm not voting for. I don't know who I will vote for. Between Lommy and Boro (both of which, coincidentally, have votes) I am leaning more towards Lommy. My uneasiness with her comes from the content of what she said, whereas with Boro it is with how he says it. Yeah, I'll call that my final decision.

Vote comming in a few minutes. I want to wait as long as I can before leaving off.

Edit: xed since #92

[Inziladun]

Can't leave it any longer.

++Eönwë

Good luck, folks.

[satansaloser2005]

I am going to bed in precisely forty-five minutes, if not before. I will make my final decision in the meantime (and also put on my cozy pajamas). For now, however, I shall offer some thoughts.

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

*sigh* Well, I'd say that I'm off for a bit and will return before bed with a vote, but I know how this works. I'm going to get caught up in whatever else I end up doing and forget to vote.

So. I've still got no suspicions great enough to act on, and I don't seem to be in danger of being lynched.

++Bom Tombadillo

Oh, you simply must be joking.


I am completely ignoring the scuffle from earlier toDay, at least for now. Let's leave that to be sorted out once we have any sort of concrete information with which to do so.

Also, this acolyte business! Aren't we meant to be catching spies? I understand the pull of discussing the subject, but really, I've ignored most of it for now, because it's far from my primary concern.

I trust one person at present, and that's Lottie. Her kitten comment in this post is oddly reassuring; it seems like my innocent Lottie, rather than an evil one. I also wish to keep the Finn contingent (+1) around, though it's presently more for entertainment value than for safety.

Bom's self-vote does not sit well with me at all. Seriously? Why would you do that? (Yeah, sure, he "explained" it, but I don't like it one bit.)

My beloved prince Boro is, of course, a sweet young lad who could never do harm.

I see Mr. Agreeable is back. Presently I'm thinking he's come back with a new fur coat. I don't suppose I could borrow it, sir? It's been quite chilly in these parts and I could use the warmth. (Overclarifying and getting irked at people's ineptitude at sarcasm do not fit an innocent Pitch's modus wolferandi.)

Steve? Steve is up to something. Oh, and Rikae is obviously evil, as always.


Or, as they say in Limerick....

Of Bom's vote I do not approve
It seems like a quite scheming move
Now stop all your fighting
And talks of wick-lighting
And make cases which you can prove

[Rikae]

I'm going to bed and unlikely to be back again before DL, so I'm going to be with my original suspicion... I was going to vote for someone else, but the recent posts from

++Inzil

have a bad vibe to them, as if he's confident that he shifted the focus and can see one of the other suspects lynched. An innocent who dodged suspicion might be relieved, but would still be concerned about placing his own vote correctly and finding the actual wolves, and the tone of his posts seems off in light of that. In addition to my earlier suspicions it puts him in the lead.

[satansaloser2005]

Wait a tick. The DL is at six? That's....man, that's going to make me want to get up early before work and try to chat some more. I thought it was at two for some reason. Still, I best just vote now(ish) and go to bed.

This has been the indecisive Sally post for this particular five minutes. I'll be voting shortly, so if anyone's around and has suggestions for me, I'd love to hear them.


Or, as they say in Limerick....

It seems that I cannot tell time
For really, I thought the deadline
Was just after two
Not when I hit snooze
And yet toward my bed I shall climb

[satansaloser2005]

Of my previously mentioned top options, I don't think Bom will go anywhere toDay, and I'm willing to give Rikae the benefit of the doubt, mostly because she was involved in the shenanigans earlier toDay and thus is confusing to read at the moment. (Also, I'm tired, so nyah.) I'm following my gut on this one, though I will by no means dissuade people from lynching Pitch in my absence.

I, however, will be voting for the last wolf in London. Well, hopefully.


Or, as they say in Limerick....

Though Rikae I do not believe
I give her and Bom a reprieve
For it is well-known
As Fea has shown
It's more fun to find rhymes for
++Steve


EDIT: x'd with Rikae's vote

[Eruhen]

Popping in before I drop off:

++Lommy

Sorry real life got in the way toDay, but I'll be back toMorrow ready to go.

[Nerwen]

Greetings, loyal subjects.

The voting so far:
A Little Green ––> Boro
Lottie ––> Lommy
Bom Tombadillo ––> Self
Galadriel55 ––> Lommy (2)
Inziladun ––> Eönwë
Rikae ––> Inziladun
Sally ––> Eönwë (2)
Eruhen ––> Lommy (3)

Left to vote: Boro, Shasta, Eönwë, Pomegranate, Pitchwife, Lommy, Nogrod, Legate.