TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

That's what I assumed, judging by the name of the role.

On the other hand, the 'cursed' idea could also work, where if there's an attempt to Night-kill or dream the acolyte, they become that role. Or even if they're the target of the other gifteds.

On the other (metaphorical- I mean, these aren't the days of Utumno any more) hand, since the Acolyte is implied to be of a similar nature to the Seer... er... Envoy, there may be a possibility that they can dream for either side, either out of choice or through the cursed way.

Yes, that's what I had in mind, basically. But right, as Zil says, it's all guesswork. Won't harm us to have somewhere to start, though. At least there's something to talk about. That doesn't mean we should dwell on that topic for the rest of the day (or game). But I think for the start, and since we really don't know much, it is as good topic for posting as any. Eventually, it will became worn-out (and it's already becoming, I think, we've named a fair couple of possibilities, so if people in the future don't have any more new thougts to add, I suggest leaving that be), and then it will drift away on its own and some more "actual" issue will take its place. But the Day has just started.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Right. Without some more clues from the narration, supported by game events, this is all guesswork.

What we can do is focus on finding the ones we know can kill us. The rest will just have to work itself out.

I like (insert sarcasm here) those proclamations, it is very nice and logical, but then of course comes the inevitable question: so what exactly do you mean by "finding the ones..." I mean, we are doing that, for sure, all of us (or: almost all of us, anyway). But until people start talking (probably about something else). You know, it's like the problem with the chicken and the egg... we have to start talking. - Yes. About what? - About catching Wolves. Yes. But how are we supposed to catch them when nobody started talking yet? - Well, we will, that's why we have to start talking. What should we talk about? - About catching Wolves, obviously. Okay. Let's catch Wolves. - Agreed. (silence)

Now that said, it's nothing against you in particular, Zil (even though I quoted your post) - I have experienced much stronger cries for "let's talk something!" (that said, I don't even know if that was your intention) who were annoying on top of that (and hypocritical - as such cries most often are). This is partially also kind of preemptive strike against such kind of behavior.

On a more specific topic, then - Lommy mentioned her hate for the random votes. And I must say I would agree. Of course, lot of stuff can happen and sometimes people are so puzzled that they are forced to vote randomly. Or, let me say: more randomly than they would like to. It happened to me too, last time I believe in my last game (some half a year ago, I think, or a bit less, four or five months maybe) - I felt I didn't have enough info to make a good decision, but in the end, I simply had to choose - based on something. But "total random", as in, "I'll toss a coin", I believe is total blasphemy and people should be lynched just for that. Only if you come online ten minutes before DL and haven't played all day, I could understand that (but then I probably wouldn't vote, personally, for the sake of being responsible). But otherwise you could at least try to form an opinion based on something small - and later you can defend your vote based on that. Your vote is your responsibility, and that's the main point of it - later, you can be judged based on how you have used it. Random vote has no responsibility in it, therefore, you are not accountable for it. But that means that you either don't care about the game at all, or that you don't want to be accountable for your votes - and there's only one role which does not want to be accountable for its votes: the baddies.

Enough of the long agitatory rant, I hope you got the point, for now, I will let myself rest, also in order to give people less stuff to read through. Ha, ha.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I like (insert sarcasm here) those proclamations, it is very nice and logical, but then of course comes the inevitable question: so what exactly do you mean by "finding the ones..." I mean, we are doing that, for sure, all of us (or: almost all of us, anyway). But until people start talking (probably about something else). You know, it's like the problem with the chicken and the egg... we have to start talking. - Yes. About what? - About catching Wolves. Yes. But how are we supposed to catch them when nobody started talking yet? - Well, we will, that's why we have to start talking. What should we talk about? - About catching Wolves, obviously. Okay. Let's catch Wolves. - Agreed. (silence)

I see your point.

Mine was merely that I don't think speculation over the Acolyte is all that useful at the moment (though that could change later), and efforts toward finding the wolves should be the focus.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But until people start talking (probably about something else). You know, it's like the problem with the chicken and the egg... we have to start talking. - Yes. About what? - About catching Wolves. Yes. But how are we supposed to catch them when nobody started talking yet? - Well, we will, that's why we have to start talking. What should we talk about? - About catching Wolves, obviously. Okay. Let's catch Wolves. - Agreed. (silence)

Exactly. As long as there is some even half-serious discussion one can start forming opinions, looking for possible motives behind the talk etc. So talking about the Acolyte serves as a subject in the beginning as any subject. We'll get into the discussion of each other soon enough, I hope. But not without something to discuss first (unless someone starts throwing strong random suspicions around - which I kind of dislike even if it sometimes actually works).

So putting my two cents to the topic. I think we have yet another possibility, which is the age-old "birthday dreamer" role. There a person picks someone fex. on N3 and gets the role that person has. That might just be enough "dreaming" to justify the parallel with the seer in the narration, and would also account for the randomness of the alignment of the role in question.

But whatever the role is, it looks like it would include a possibility for change in alignment or gaining a gift, whether chosen by the person or happening on her/him. The consequences would be radically different in the two cases.

Originally Posted by Legate of Khand

But "total random", as in, "I'll toss a coin", I believe is total blasphemy and people should be lynched just for that.
...
Your vote is your responsibility, and that's the main point of it - later, you can be judged based on how you have used it. Random vote has no responsibility in it, therefore, you are not accountable for it.

I think my position with this is quite well established among people who have played with me during the years...

I would put it in a bit more stronger terms, though. Declaring your vote to be random, you declare you are not going to stand behind your vote - and that no one should have a say in why you voted the way you did as that was "random". The point here being that "declaration of randomness" with which this sneaking away from responsibility happens.

Like Legate says, even if you have very little or nothing to go on with, you always have impressions, gut feelings etc. to work with. It's only the wolves who need to come up with invented grounds for their votes. And I do think here lies a big difference between goodies and baddies.

We all have these feelings of initial trust or suspicion because we don't know who is good and who is bad. But the baddies do not have them as they know things already. So whereas we can be honest with our feelings the baddies need to invent them every time they try to argue for their "suspicions" or tell about their "feelings"... (which they don't have). So accepting random-voting only aids the baddies and thus should be strongly disapproved, with the threwat of lynching I would say.

Having that kind of mood around is one of the best ways to force the wolves into the open with arguments (which are by definition always false). And that is what we need to do.


EDIT: Uh, did I write that post over half an hour? So X'd with a host...