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Old 01-11-2012, 09:20 PM   #1
Galin
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I am almost certain that the scene between Galadriel and Gandalf is innocuous.
But can a character do something arguably outnocuous and simply claim that it's in
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:50 PM   #2
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But can a character do something arguably outnocuous and simply claim that it's in
Heh, point taken. That was a good one.

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I didn't read the whole topic, but just have to comment on the last post: in fact, there is not a single named female character in the whole book as far as I can recall (not among the actually active characters, anyway). In a book it is not that significant, especially given the time when it was made, but a movie in the present world with no women at all would definitely be extraordinary. It could be interesting, and would be more canon and more right especially to us who can pretty much cite the book by heart, but I guess the movie is not just for us. But I agree with you in the wishes for no added romantic tension, it would feel... wrong.
Rubbish! There's plenty of women in The Hobbit. There's uhh......well what about...no....and then there's uh.....or....hmmmm.....How about?....no, that's no good.

Bilbo's mother is mentioned several times, and I bet some of Beorn's animals were female! And the wolves! Maybe there was a female wolf or two! ....What?......
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:15 PM   #3
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Bilbo's mother is mentioned several times, and I bet some of Beorn's animals were female!
You raise a good point: there were thousands and thousands of females on Beorn's property, making his life sweeter every day.



That's the buzz anyway
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:47 PM   #4
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Um, Lobelia Sackville-Baggins?
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Old 01-14-2012, 03:04 PM   #5
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Um, Lobelia Sackville-Baggins?
Imagine Blanchett playing that one!
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:29 AM   #6
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Rubbish! There's plenty of women in The Hobbit. There's uhh......well what about...no....and then there's uh.....or....hmmmm.....How about?....no, that's no good.
They don't HAVE to make every woman a warrior-princess, though. That and the ugly old hag are not the only roles women can play. Why can't they just make her an interesting attendant, or a counsellor? Something a little intellectual or emotional rather than I'M LITTLE MS. KICK-YOUR-BACKSIDE AND I'M SO ICKLE-CLEVER THAT I CAN TRACK BETTER THAN ARAGORN!

Sorry.
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Old 02-04-2012, 01:55 PM   #7
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They don't HAVE to make every woman a warrior-princess, though. That and the ugly old hag are not the only roles women can play. Why can't they just make her an interesting attendant, or a counsellor? Something a little intellectual or emotional rather than I'M LITTLE MS. KICK-YOUR-BACKSIDE AND I'M SO ICKLE-CLEVER THAT I CAN TRACK BETTER THAN ARAGORN!

Sorry.
Agreed. As soon as it was confirmed there would be a Hobbit movie, I predicted there would be some sort of Mary-Sue Arwen-on-steroids warrior princess character. I hoped I was wrong. It looks like I was not.

If there has to be a woman role then I think a better (and even more imaginative and less predicable role) perhaps would have been an attendant or counsellor. Perhaps one that was wise and beautiful (rather than wise and old and shriveled, because beauty and brains can go together) and dared to speak against Thranduil imprisoning the dwarves rather than sending them on their way.

The motion picture industry for years has been laboring under the delusion that the audience needs a character they can relate to. Women need a strong woman role (especially someone who worries about their love interest or child) to relate to a story, children and teenagers need someone their age in the story they can relate to. I have read many books and seen many movies and TV shows over the years that have had none or at least very little children or (now at my age) female roles in them and had no trouble at all relating to the characters in the story. I believe that people can relate to a character that is totally unlike them, but Hollywood won't give them a chance.
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Old 02-04-2012, 02:47 PM   #8
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The motion picture industry for years has been laboring under the delusion that the audience needs a character they can relate to. Women need a strong woman role (especially someone who worries about their love interest or child) to relate to a story, children and teenagers need someone their age in the story they can relate to.
Hollywood nonesense, as you said. What especially bothers me is the "strong female character" trend.

Recently I watched a really bad movie (called Special Forces) with a nauseatingly "strong" female character. And the audience was meant to cheer for her and pity her and etc. I laughed because the way she played heroine was so fake and over the top and all the men around her made into such idiot blundering babies by the script that it's impossible to take the whole movie seriously anymore.

In that movie the woman was the main character. Luckily for us, Bilbo has that one, and Martin Freeman won't fall into the mud. I hope that as a secondary character Itaril/Tauriel won't be as bad.


Now before you all jump on me, I'm not a hypocrite. There are some good characters that go on even when they can't anymore (like our dead Frodo), but there are those whose roles are blowing this heroism up into enormous proportions. Those who saw Special Forces know what I mean (but if you didn't - save your sanity and don't).
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:12 AM   #9
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I recently watched The Eagle, a film which had virtually no female roles in it whatsoever. This did not spoil the film for me at all, for there was no reason for any female lead role in it. Now I am not saying that films don't need women, of course they do, but in the right context. I do not think that beefing up a female serves any purpose, yes they can fight, there are many female boxers, martial artists and servicewomen who are tough, however they are not tougher than the men. Chauvinist! I hear the screams, I am sorry but it remains a truth, physically a woman is inferior to a man in battle, where things level out is in the grey matter, women are just as intelligent, if not more so in some cases than men. I did not like the treatment of Eowyn's speech to The Witch-king, they took away all the power of her love and devotion to her King, and replaced it with the feminist drawl of ''I am no MAN'', if she'd have puked after saying that word I would not have been surprised, she is a SHIELD-MAID of Rohan, a woman trained to fight, of course she's not a man, but she had more respect for them than that. You could see the way their minds were working when they contemplated sending Arwen to lead the elves to Helms Deep, they desperately want a huge heroine to stand forth. Fran Walsh and Phillipa Boyens were responsible for the male character assassinations in LotR's and the overemphasizing of Arwen's role. In the LotR's the leader of the Orc-band who captured Merry and Pippin was Ugluk, so why did we need a completely different character in Lurtz?. The same with this character Tauriel .....if they want a strong female character in these films, why not use the one they have at hand, Galadriel (Nerwen) the Man-maiden, I would rather see her in battle than some form of Middle-earth meets Marvel Taurielektra. In Galadriel there is the perfect example of the warrior woman, tall, strong, beautiful and intelligent, and an history which proves it. It has often upset me why she was not acclaimed The High-queen of The Noldor, seeing as Elrond didn't use any title and she was (apart from Maglor) the only remaining grandchild of Finwe left alive in Middle-earth.
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:58 PM   #10
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The Eagle! That was such a great movie! I saw it a few months ago and was very impressed with the whole thing, the story, the acting, and the cinematography. I was surprised it is not more well known since it was so very well done. I am a female and had no trouble relating to any of the male roles in the film. Yes it had no female roles in it (save the Seal People girls that blush and giggle at Marcus Aquila) but I think it would have done damage to the story if there had been any strong female warrior roles. Everyone knows that the Roman Legions had no women fighting in them. Yes, the Celts may have had a few women that were fighters but that's all we need is a female warrior slave for Marcus to fall in love with *YAWN*. Boring and predictable.

Narfforc, now that you mention it, they really did butcher Eowyn's speech to the Witch-king. The best parts about her speech are about her love and loyalty to her king, which any man could have said just as well as any woman. The only things she says about not being a man is to say "No living man am I." which is essentially speaking the prophecy of his doom back to him.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:21 AM   #11
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[QUOTE]
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I recently watched The Eagle, a film which had virtually no female roles in it whatsoever. This did not spoil the film for me at all, for there was no reason for any female lead role in it.
Agreed. I'd rather see a film with no female characters than with female characters that are cliched or unrealistic.

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I do not think that beefing up a female serves any purpose, yes they can fight, there are many female boxers, martial artists and servicewomen who are tough, however they are not tougher than the men.
There's nothing wrong with a female fighter. Just because they are not as strong as men does not mean they are not strong period (in the same way that not having an IQ of 300 doesn't mean that you're stupid) – BUT I see something wrong with 'beefing up' a female character just to show that she can fight, and not because she's serving any purpose. Usually, when women in movies are fighters, they are the ONLY woman present, and actually just serve to be eye-candy for the men seated in the audience. In the end, they always need to be rescued. Bottom line? Either give me a female fighter with emotional flaws that doesn't need to be saved every two minutes, or don't give me a female fighter at all.

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where things level out is in the grey matter
Men - physically superior due to strength
Women - biologically superior due to creation of life

Fact of nature. No point arguing.
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