WW LXXXIX: The Terror of Tol Fuin

[Nogrod]

Now this is an interesting developement.

I have been more or less uneasy with the way most people say how G55 makes so much sense. I've had a feeling she makes a lot of sense but that I also thought she was making comments that were against a well-informed goodie she seemed to be. I thought of letting it go (not going back to check the details and try to see if there was a case there) as it's her first game - and I'm not actually wishing to lynch her on D1 whatever the case - unless it can be shown believably that she is actually a wolf. I mean there is something in the traditions we should honour.

But these latest do give oneself some food for thought.

Lottie comes out in the open totally against the general outspoken mood saying she actually suspects G55.

Eomer votes G55 because of "too much defending of Sally" (+ "too much attacking Bom and a weird interpretation of Kitanna").

What Sally does next - the last line of her post, which looks like a quick reaction to what she saw in the htread before her post...

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I'm going to go have a look at Eomer, I do believe. After all, I don't want to get so caught up in what Kit's been saying that I neglect her (possible) packmates.

We made this a useful D1 after all. Hurray!

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Eomer votes G55 because of "too much defending of Sally" (+ "too much attacking Bom and a weird interpretation of Kitanna").

What Sally does next - the last line of her post, which looks like a quick reaction to what she saw in the htread before her post...

And you've clearly not yet seen the post in which I agree with him about how creepy it is. Do pay attention to what I'm actually saying before you cry wolf, okay, dear?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Bom

*ahem* It's well known that the first three people to post are the wolves. This means that while I agree with you, Nilp, about Sally being evil, so are you and . . . er . . . me. Um, maybe I should've thought that through more.

By the way, does anybody know whether votes are retractable? If it's in the rules, then I missed it.

If they are, then I'll be voting for DeathWish!Sally until such time as further evidence is presented.

"But she doesn't have a death wish," you say?

You will note that she has not withdrawn, ergo, according to her own (totally not-taken-out-of-context!) words, she will have to be killed.

I think, especially due to that last sentence, that this post was mostly a joke by Bom. What bothers me about it is that it also looked like he was using this joke-post to prep for an easy vote on Sally today.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

So we know for sure if we're still a struggling village looking to kill some wolves by the 6th Sally is out. Why bother telling us this? If she's an ordo she can't protect, dream of, or kill anyone. She can only vote. Of course we're out one vote which isn't good, but at this point in the game why bother saying anything?
1) She's a gifted and she wants to ensure her survival so we can get as much use out of her as possible before her inevitable death.
2) She's a wolf and she wants to ensure survival under the guise of innocence by her self-possessed "this village can't win with a dead ordo Sally"
3) She's a foolish villager who has now left herself open for attacks at night.

1) Why would you bring attention to this, if true?
2) Survival only to have to drop out/be modkilled later? Try again.
3) Sally is many things, but foolish isn't one of them. Hmm.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Sally pretty much signed her own death warrant with that post anyway you look at it, but she wants us all believe we can't win the game as a village without her.

And so I declared shenanigans on this idea earlier. If Sally really is innocent, gifted or ordo, there's a good chance the wolves will take advantage and get her in the Night.

What Sally is basically saying is that every time she's been an ordo and died, the village has won. And the second part of this quote seems rather redundant, unless you're saying the wolves won't try to get her lynched... in which case, why would you say that when you're the one saying she's suspicious?

I'm a little confused - Kitanna's suspicious are Sally and Bom, and she seems to be suspicious of Bom for being ready to vote Sally, which to me seems a bit counter-intuitive. And this -

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I can understand suspicions of Sally, but simply killing her because she's going to die seems pretty wolfish. It's almost like "she's admitted she's an ordo, best to get one villager out of the way by Day and another by Night."

- may be pulling a Lottie, but struck me as rather over-the-top.

I'm unsure what to think of Sally at this point. This -

Originally Posted by Sally

Ah, but you see, dear Kit, if the wolves try to kill me in the Night, they won't be targeting one of the gifteds. So not only have I now made the announcement of when we'll need to win the game by very clear, I've created possible confusion among the wolf pack.

A wolf pack which I now believe you might be a part of, precious.


Ain't life grand?



And now, a list!

Possibly evil (by basis of reacting suspiciously to my post):
Kit
Bom (depending on whether or not he was entirely joking, and even then)
Nerwen (for defending-ish me far too quickly for Nerwen)

Possibly evil (by basis of record):
Nilp
Mith
Nerwen
Kit
Lottie

Possibly evil (by basis of being insane):
Everyone

- has elements of both ordo-Sally and wolf-Sally in it; she's flippant and sarcastic in her defense, but she's also quick to revenge-accuse Kitanna.

Originally Posted by Gala

I don't think that Sally would have endangered herself that much in her first post if she has a special role. However, I see what you mean about Bom. He's really pushing a sallywagon, or trying to.

One post does not a pushing attempt make, I don't think. I would like to see Bom comment on his post, though.

Originally Posted by Gala

Kit is #2 on my suspision list, for saying that Bom is pushing a sallywagon and pushing it herself yet further.

I do agree with this, though. Kit brings up the Sally-vote in a showcase-like manner, then suspects Bom for starting it in the first place.

Originally Posted by Gala

But no wolf will kill her after your post! That would be so obvious! The only explanation I could come up with is that you are a wolf who speaks while plotting who will be the first victim. And you're debating about Bom to make yourself look unconnected to him.

This could be a bit too much assumption on your part, though, Gala. It's really hard to predict what wolves will do in any given situation - it truly depends on the wolf. I'm not convinced that Kit and Bom are both wolves together, either.

Greenie, you've called Nerwen "careful" and "neutral" twice now. Do you suspect her, or not?

Originally Posted by Gala

Kit wouldn't set so many arguments against him (with which personally I agree) if he was her packmate. It's too much of a risk.

She absolutely would, especially on Day 1 when it's unlikely he'll be voted for being "new-ish". Wolf-on-wolfing is an extremely common tactic among wolves.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I doubt I'll vote for Sally today. I don't trust her, but Bom looks worse for his actions.

Bom has only made one action to speak of. This seems like it's jumping the gun a bit.

Originally Posted by Mith

I don't know what Sally is playing at though. It is ten days til she says she has to go and in a game this size it is unlikely to be an issue. And apart from the ethics of participating in a game knowing you may not be able to see it through, I can't see any benefit of drawing attention to it so far in advance. I may be being thick but I can't see it being a helpful tactic for any role we have in the game. A hunter needs to get themselves killed to fulfil their purpose but we don't have one and it would be impossible for a Hunter to be in a position to make a good call that early in the game.

I basically agree with everything said here.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Overruled, Mith. There were pigeons and, what's more, the promise of pigeons yet to appear.

I think you're a pigeon! I do, however, agree with you about the jump on Bom.

Originally Posted by Legate

Why do you think not knowing the rules is suspicious? I would think the opposite - WWs especially really have to read the rules, so that they can operate properly. (Although, in my opinion, everybody should read the rules carefully to be able to operate properly in his or her own role - even ordos, so that they can judge well what's going on and what are the options... but for WWs and Gifteds it is necessary, because e.g. you cannot play a Ranger without knowing how this role works, and a Wolf should know that as well, so that they know how they should plan their Night-kills in regards to there being other roles which can hinder them and so on...)

Can we just... not go down this road? 'Kay, thanks. (See - Lottie.)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

On another quick note. As I just skimmed through what had happened the last I find it odd Greenie makes some sense saying that what Bom said looked more like "this is what I'm going to do unless there is a better option" and not "there is our wolf, let's lynch her together now". But then she went on and voted for him.

This, also, I agree with.

Re Lommy at #79 - I don't think I've ever seen Lommy so decisive! Especially on Day 1! Something to consider...

Originally Posted by Sally[/b

The thing that bothers me about Kit is that she flip flops on me, first calling my post rather innocent and then (in her most recent post) saying that I'm likely guilty because of how I'm handling myself. You can't have it both ways, dear, and while I agree that Bom's reaction to my post could point to guilt, it could just as easily be a joke.

Er... no she doesn't, dearheart. Kitanna specifically says in her first post about you that she finds your post suspicious.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Wow, that was quite a piece of no opinions. I clearly need to shrapen my brain.

Hee hee.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Defending Sally, exaggerating Bom's words, and painting Kitanna as hypocritical (which was not my interpretation of Kit's post). I don't quite see why you did all three of these things.

Really, oh pigeon? Suspecting Sally and then suspecting Bom for suspecting Sally seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Originally Posted by Sally

Speaking of submarines....Shasta, darling? Where are you?

I'm doing a composite post. Shush.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Legate

Funny - this is about the first thing I find suspicious about Sally in the way she said something.

I actually tend to agree with you. I do find it odd that Sally never mentions suspecting Gala until after first Lottie, then Eomer mention it, then uses their reasoning to say "oh, by the way, I suspect her too!" Hmm.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

What Sally is basically saying is that every time she's been an ordo and died, the village has won.

Flipping this. I have an Excel chart to prove it. >.<

Originally Posted by Shasta, to me

Er... no she doesn't, dearheart. Kitanna specifically says in her first post about you that she finds your post suspicious.

But she's suspecting Bom for suspecting me, then suspecting me herself. I really should have been clearer about that, shouldn't I? Oh well. I just mean that suspecting the person who suspects the person you're suspecting doesn't make any sense. Just like that last sentence.



x'd with Shasta

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Flipping this. I have an Excel chart to prove it. >.<




But she's suspecting Bom for suspecting me, then suspecting me herself. I really should have been clearer about that, shouldn't I? Oh well. I just mean that suspecting the person who suspects the person you're suspecting doesn't make any sense. Just like that last sentence.



x'd with Shasta

Oops! I actually meant to say "the village has lost", not "won". My bad.

Yes, if you read my post I mention that myself.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I do hope the lack of any Legate or Nog posts in the last few minutes means they're reading my novel and preparing comments.

I'll be back in fifteen minutes or so. Deadline is in an hour and a half, correct?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I'll be back in fifteen minutes or so. Deadline is in an hour and a half, correct?

Ditto this, and yes, dear, you're correct.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Oops! I actually meant to say "the village has lost", not "won". My bad.

Yes, if you read my post I mention that myself.

Bahahahaha! I didn't even notice that!


And I know, but didn't you mention it in regards to Eomer? It applies to Kit as well, which is why I did a re-hash.



x'd with Shasta

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I'm a little confused - Kitanna's suspicious are Sally and Bom, and she seems to be suspicious of Bom for being ready to vote Sally, which to me seems a bit counter-intuitive.

I do agree with this, though. Kit brings up the Sally-vote in a showcase-like manner, then suspects Bom for starting it in the first place.

Really, oh pigeon? Suspecting Sally and then suspecting Bom for suspecting Sally seems a bit hypocritical to me.

This is all from one of Shasta's posts, and a couple of other people have suggested the same: that Kitanna looks weird and possibly hypocritical for suspecting Bom for his infamous Sally-comment, and then suspecting Sally herself.

But Kitanna had a case against Sally; she suspected Sally for different reasons than Bom had (if he actually suspected her at all - which I doubt). I don't see how that's hypocritical. I'm not defending Kitanna per se, but this is not a successful argument against her.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

How about her case against known evil-slaying Lommy? When there could be, I don't know, far better suspects?

(Will most likely be back before DL. Toodles!)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

How about her case against known evil-slaying Lommy? When there could be, I don't know, far better suspects?

(Will most likely be back before DL. Toodles!)

That's an entirely different kettle of fish, dear Nilpaurion, and one which I shall investigate posthaste!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Eomer votes G55 because of "too much defending of Sally" (+ "too much attacking Bom and a weird interpretation of Kitanna").

What Sally does next - the last line of her post, which looks like a quick reaction to what she saw in the htread before her post...

Interesting observation, really. A good one, but I am really not putting that much into the G55 situation. G55 really seems rather sensible to me this far.

Although of course, being thrown into your first game as a Wolf might force you to sharpen your skills to the most (I could talk - I had such an experience in my first game), so that might be what stands behind her surprisingly good reasoning this far... but then maybe it is also just stalking WW threads for too long (as I believe she had been doing)...

EDIT: x-ed since my last. Ah, people seem to be on dope, good. Posts falling from the very sky...