WW LXXXIX: The Terror of Tol Fuin

[A Little Green]

Since the Sally-Bom-business is pretty much the only thing of substance discussed, I think I'll add my two cents on that before (hopefully) moving on to other matters.

Originally Posted by Sally

All right then, to business. Here are some facts to keep in mind.

I am an ordo.

I fully intend to win this game.

I have to be done with this game by, if not before, July 6. If we're not done by then, I'll have to withdraw.

I've never withdrawn from a game before. I have no desire to do so now.

If I don't withdraw, I'll have to be killed at some point (or modfired, which also has never happened).

Statistically, if I'm killed as an ordo, the village cannot win. (The only exception to this is a tie.)


Therefore, we need to kill all the werewolves before the sixth. If we don't, we don't win.

I'm not sure if I get all she's saying but her tone strikes me as more innocent than not.

Originally Posted by Bom

*ahem* It's well known that the first three people to post are the wolves. This means that while I agree with you, Nilp, about Sally being evil, so are you and . . . er . . . me. Um, maybe I should've thought that through more.

By the way, does anybody know whether votes are retractable? If it's in the rules, then I missed it.

If they are, then I'll be voting for DeathWish!Sally until such time as further evidence is presented.

"But she doesn't have a death wish," you say?

You will note that she has not withdrawn, ergo, according to her own (totally not-taken-out-of-context!) words, she will have to be killed.

This strikes me as more fishy than Sally's "ordo reveal". Might sound odd, but the only thing that makes me doubt his guilt is how many people suspect him.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

We have Sally claiming to be an ordo– which almost counts as a reveal, in a small game like this.

We have Bom Tombadillo stating his intention of voting Sally

Originally Posted by Nerwen

If votes were retractable, the rules would have said so (unless Zil wants to come to life to correct me).

Now, here's a question for you, Bom. Obviously, your reason for voting Sally is a joke. What about your intention of voting her as a placeholder candidate? Was that a joke too?

Unless I missed something, Nerwen is the first to comment the issue. She takes a very neutral tone, summarising what the two had done and asking a clarification from Bom. Careful.

Originally Posted by Shasta

In any case, the only actual game-related thing thus far that I see is Bom and his stated intention to vote Sally "if nothing better comes along", and Nerwen pointing it out, to which I also would like an answer, Bom.

Shasta pretty much echoes Nerwen, not taking sides, either.

Originally Posted by Mith

Interesting - I usually think not knowing the rules is suspicious - which mean Bom is looking interesting ... rule query, first post and this offer to more or less "mercy lynch" Sally. I have been in games where even one of those was a fast track to the gallows on Day One....Shasta..i am really beginning to understand your nerves! But would also be interested to hear Bom answer Nerwen's question.

Mith is the second to press Bom to answer Nerwen. While I am of the opinion that neither knowing or not knowing the rules can be taken as a sign of wolvery, I can't really quarrel with Mith's conclusion (=Bom is looking interesting).

Then we have Kit's novel on Sally and Bom. I'm not going to quote it in full, but rather extracts I found interesting.

Originally Posted by Kit

So we know for sure if we're still a struggling village looking to kill some wolves by the 6th Sally is out. Why bother telling us this? If she's an ordo she can't protect, dream of, or kill anyone. She can only vote. Of course we're out one vote which isn't good, but at this point in the game why bother saying anything?
1) She's a gifted and she wants to ensure her survival so we can get as much use out of her as possible before her inevitable death.
2) She's a wolf and she wants to ensure survival under the guise of innocence by her self-possessed "this village can't win with a dead ordo Sally"
3) She's a foolish villager who has now left herself open for attacks at night.

Sally pretty much signed her own death warrant with that post anyway you look at it, but she wants us all believe we can't win the game as a village without her.

I'm inclined to agree with the first half of that last sentence. I'm not as sure of her three options regarding Sally's role. 1) Why speculate aloud about someone possibly being Gifted? 2) Possible, I guess. Not what I'd expect a Sallywolf to say, but the logic is sound. 3) Like Sally herself said, later on: an ordo dead by Night means no Gifted killed that same Night. An ordo is open for attacks at Night in any case.

If Sally really is innocent, gifted or ordo, there's a good chance the wolves will take advantage and get her in the Night. I doubt she'd be foolish enough to say anything if she was a gifted. I might think the same thing of her being a wolf if she had stopped after saying she had to withdraw on the 6th. The second half of her post looks awfully suspicious to me. Still, there's doubt, it's a bold move to make, especially so early on Day 1 and in such a small game.

This paragraph makes more or less sense. I don't agree about the second half of Sally's post looking suspicious, but I can see how it could look that way.

Originally Posted by Kit

What? Who does that? Mith and Nerwen both commented on this. And I'm inclined to agree this is pretty shifty work. If you're unsure of Sally and are only doing it as a mercy-killing why not wait until Day progresses? Very little had actually been said yet and he's already heading down this road. And more alarming he is only using her to hold a vote until he digs up someone else to vote for.

I can understand suspicions of Sally, but simply killing her because she's going to die seems pretty wolfish. It's almost like "she's admitted she's an ordo, best to get one villager out of the way by Day and another by Night."

I more or less agree with Kit in this.

If Bom is guilty he's trying to steer votes to Sally under the guise of a mercy kill to keep conversation of away from him and his cohorts. He's hardly started a bandwagon or anything, but a wolf could keep all eyes on Sally today so the real threat is forgotten. Notice he doesn't say he thinks she's a wolf or an innocent. If he's innocent he was very bold and foolish to suggest voting for Sally just because she had to be gone by the 6th.

So basically, you suspect that either Sally or Bom is evil, but not both?

Originally Posted by Sally

Ah, but you see, dear Kit, if the wolves try to kill me in the Night, they won't be targeting one of the gifteds. So not only have I now made the announcement of when we'll need to win the game by very clear, I've created possible confusion among the wolf pack.

A wolf pack which I now believe you might be a part of, precious.

And now, a list!

Possibly evil (by basis of reacting suspiciously to my post):
Kit
Bom (depending on whether or not he was entirely joking, and even then)
Nerwen (for defending-ish me far too quickly for Nerwen)

I'm not sure here. I'm inclined to find Sally innocent, but I'd be leaning that way on Kit too. As for Nerwen, I wouldn't call her post even defending-ish of Sally. To me, it looked careful and decidedly neutral.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

You failed to notice (or purposely ignored) the fact that one ordo can make a difference in the outcome simply by being alive.

I don't think that Sally would have endangered herself that much in her first post if she has a special role. However, I see what you mean about Bom. He's really pushing a sallywagon, or trying to.

I agree with all but the last sentence here. Pushing a Sallywagon? A single post declaring an intent to vote somebody if nothing better appears doesn't equal bandwagon in my book.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Kit is #2 on my suspision list, for saying that Bom is pushing a sallywagon and pushing it herself yet further.

I don't think Kit's reason for suspecting Bom was that he considered voting Sally, but the reasons he had for it (mainly the "mercy kill" idea).

Originally Posted by Galadriel

But no wolf will kill her after your post! That would be so obvious! The only explanation I could come up with is that you are a wolf who speaks while plotting who will be the first victim. And you're debating about Bom to make yourself look unconnected to him.

So in summary we have Nerwen and Shasta commenting on the issue while remaining neutral, Mith voicing slight suspicion on Bom, Kit suspecting both Sally and Bom are wolves but not together, and Galadriel more or less accusing both Bom and Kit, while Sally herself suspects both Kit and Bom. My brain hurts.


EDIT: x-ed with the lovely ladies Galadriel, Sally and Mith