Christopher Tolkien at it again....

[skip spence]

Just a question...

Knowing very little about all this, I spontaneously doubt that Christopher Tolkien, who must be ancient by now, personally is the driving force behind these copyright cases. Isn't it more likely that the Estate hired a bunch of good (and with good I mean skilled) copyright lawyers and told then to do their thing and serve the organization? Or am I wrong?

[davem]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Just a question...

Knowing very little about all this, I spontaneously doubt that Christopher Tolkien, who must be ancient by now, personally is the driving force behind these copyright cases. Isn't it more likely that the Estate hired a bunch of good (and with good I mean skilled) copyright lawyers and told then to do their thing and serve the organization? Or am I wrong?

I don't think lawyers act unilaterally. Behind this is either CT or his son Adam - probably both. That said Adam is probably taking over the reigns. We can't blame Adam for the Drout/Beowulf episode, but we may be seeing more of his hand in current events. CT is the 'figurehead' though.

The problem, as I mentioned, is that this kind of behaviour (& we've seen similar things coming out of Disney, & Warner Bros re Harry Potter) makes an organisation look bullying & alienates fans. Fans usually have a sense that a particular book/film/tv show sort of 'belongs' to them - not in any 'legal' sense, obviously - but that they are part of a community of likeminded folk & who have come together around a particular story & set of characters. This is CT/AT/the Estate coming along & screeching 'THIS IS OURS! YOU GET AS MUCH OR AS LITTLE OF THIS AS WE PERMIT - & IF YOU DO ANYTHING WE DON'T LIKE WE WILL PUNISH YOU.' Every action like this is about emphasising that the world & characters you love belong to someone else - they may be in your mind & heart but they are owned by someone else - & you can only speak about or refer to them if the owners allow you to. In short, it gets fans' backs up & is massively counterproductive.

This is all about reputation - if the Estate get a reputation for bullying & pettiness they will lose a lot more than they could possibly gain financially from asserting their rights. Over the last few months I've lost a great deal of respect for the Estate & CT/AT & that's down to their behaviour & their treatment of people who have done nothing wrong - & I'm not the only one. I wonder if anyone still feels just as positively about them as they did - or at least feels the same as they did?

[garm]

Originally Posted by davem

I wonder if anyone still feels just as positively about them as they did - or at least feels the same as they did?

I do. I've changed my mind about davem in the last few months, though.

[davem]

Originally Posted by garm

I do. I've changed my mind about davem in the last few months, though.

Well, if was feeling facetious I could point out that I am not here to live up to your expectations.....

However. Let us not.....

Perhaps you could clarify your position - simply that you will support CT/The Estate no matter what they do - that as far as you are concerned whatever they do must be right simply because they are the ones doing it?

In other words 'rightness' in this context = whatever CT/the Estate choose to do - even if the law, say, decided that they were wrong to threaten legal action against a person/company who produced a jokey badge which mentioned Tolkien (noting, btw, that JRRT/CT are not the only writers of that name - Tolkien's other grandson, Simon, is also a published author), you would still claim that the law in that instance was wrong? Or if the courts decided that using Tolkien as a character in a historical novel (as has happened with numerous other historical figures - & which Tolkien himself did in NCP) was perfectly acceptable?

You see, its all well & good to go on the offensive (& kudos for the Garm = Domini Canes thing) but you haven't put a case, or defended their actions. Its hardly good enough to pop up & say 'Oh, davem, oh, I've changed my mind about davem'. The Estate have acted, they have changed things - books that have been written have been prevented from appearing, books that have appeared they are attempting to ban & have copies destroyed. Someone who makes a jokey badge is threatened & stopped. And your response to these moves is not to defend them or argue any justification, but to simply accept this behaviour & say you're disappointed in anyone who criticises them.

Maybe I expected better of them & you didn't?

[Bêthberry]

Apparently the Zazzle thing was not instigated by the Tolkien Estate after all.

Zazzle found the button "potentially infringing".

[Mister Underhill]

Here's a blog post with the emails between the guy who made the button and Zazzle after this dustup started:

http://www.giro.org/2011/03/01/the-zazzle-emails/

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Here's a blog post with the emails between the guy who made the button and Zazzle after this dustup started:

http://www.giro.org/2011/03/01/the-zazzle-emails/

Zazzle has loads of Tolkien stuff available - or did last time I looked. The idea that people there would suddenly pick this one to ban without any kind of official/semi-official contact is hard to believe.

Being a regular reader of Techdirt I've lost count of the number of stories about lawyers threatening action on behalf of their clients, negative publicity ensuing, & the clients then issuing a statement that it had nothing to do with them......

Awaiting a report that they didn't try & stop the books, really, truly.