The Valley Forge - WW LXXXVII - Admin Thread

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, and that's exactly what I am trying to prevent by asking about it... Because, even if the person does not want to reveal by himself, what if... let's put it this way: It is Day 1. (Or Day Anything, for that matter.) The village agrees that X is a Wolf and needs to be lynched. Basically everybody agrees on that there is something fishy about the fellow and votes start to fall. Half of the people has voted, our person X is in the lead and it does not seem like the votes are going to turn elsewhere anytime soon. However, unbeknownst to the village, person X is the King's Dwarf. Now what is the person going to do? If the situation looks really desperate? I think quite many people will be tempted (and under certain circumstances, it might be really the most reasonable thing to do, especially if there are only two other WWs left, the person can even very well win at that point) to just say "okay, I am probably going to die, but I will at least help the village. Okay, hear ye people, I am the King's Dwarf. Even if you now stop voting for me, I will likely die soon, but I can tell you that the Wolves are Y and Z." And what then? Will there be anything to prevent that?

Ah. A likely scenerio. Hm. Is it ridiculous of me to say that the KD CAN'T under any circumstances say outright who he is? I'd like to, as that's pretty much how I was thinking of it in my mind, but is it fair to expect that? Plus, if I don't make that rule, we can have all sorts of false claims and double bluffing going on. I'll think about this, too.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Ah. A likely scenerio. Hm. Is it ridiculous of me to say that the KD CAN'T under any circumstances say outright who he is? I'd like to, as that's pretty much how I was thinking of it in my mind, but is it fair to expect that? Plus, if I don't make that rule, we can have all sorts of false claims and double bluffing going on. I'll think about this, too.

Well, I think there'll be no harm in saying that KD CAN'T reveal. It at least makes it clear. However, you possibly might have some hints and would-be hints and all anyway, such as "don't lynch me! It is to your own harm!" But then again, the outcome of that is far less certain (and if the person survives, he/she can get under suspicion by fellow Wolves).

But concerning the false claims, I don't think there will be much of false claims even if you don't decide to make that rule, as there is not much anybody would gain by them.

Anyway, you must decide for yourself, in the end... but possibly people might still have something interesting to say about this here.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Ah. A likely scenerio. Hm. Is it ridiculous of me to say that the KD CAN'T under any circumstances say outright who he is? I'd like to, as that's pretty much how I was thinking of it in my mind, but is it fair to expect that? Plus, if I don't make that rule, we can have all sorts of false claims and double bluffing going on. I'll think about this, too.

We are your labrats. you can make the rules...

Oh I don't know if is unconscious but you have used he for KD & nightwatchman. and her for sweetheart. Now if that was more than a figure of speech (ie the KD will be a male player and the Sweetheart female then it adds a whole new dynamic to the game. Maybe should take advantage of the fact that male and female dwarves are hard to tell apart!

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Oh I don't know if is unconscious but you have used he for KD & nightwatchman. and her for sweetheart. Now if that was more than a figure of speech (ie the KD will be a male player and the Sweetheart female then it adds a whole new dynamic to the game. Maybe should take advantage of the fact that male and female dwarves are hard to tell apart!

I am going to make no distinction of male and female players when the roles are decided. I aim to do it in a random manner and not choose anybody because I think they'll be good at a particular part. I called them a he and a she because that's how I have been picturing them in the storyline. I did not think how that would impact how I wrote my narratives. Hmph. Things are more complicated than I imagined.

I am thinking that I will make it so that the KD cannot outright announce his identity. The hints will crop up regardless, and that's fine. False hints may even arrive.

I am still thinking of possible additional gifted roles.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Folwren

I am thinking that I will make it so that the KD cannot outright announce his identity.

Does saying "my real name is Katy Davis"* count as announcing it outright?

*No, not really.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Folwren

I am going to make no distinction of male and female players when the roles are decided. I aim to do it in a random manner and not choose anybody because I think they'll be good at a particular part. . Things are more complicated than I imagined. .

Don't worry. You just have to state that using he/she in narrations shouldn't be taken as a clue to the actual gender of the players. They are just roles after all. If you don't end up making an executive decision about bringing someone back from the dead you will be doing better than me!!!

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, Galadriel, you have so much to learn about over hints. *hides from everyone from Glirdan's Greek game*

Anyway, sadly, I'm out for this round. I'm simply too busy, and playing on my phone doesn't work nearly as well as I'd like, so I'll be taking a game or two off. It sounds fun though!

[Kitanna]

I get off work an hour after the DL (should it be 3pm) and as my last game showed that's not very good for me. However, if the DL were to be 11 PM I'd have about five hours of game play and then a quick vote post before going to work in the morning. I'd like to play, but I'm not sure if I can. Please mark me as a maybe and I'll make a decision soon.

[Glirdan]

Hmmm, i'm definitely interested but my work schedule and rehearsal schedule is a little whack...sign me up with a question mark for now and I'll let you know

[Ozban]

I would join, hope there's room for that yet.

[Lhunardawen]

Why Foley, you never told me you're planning on modding a game - and the skipped one at that! I would love to play in your game, but I think I've had my fix (with my brain intermittently creaking in protest). Besides, I might be a bit busy for the next few weeks until school starts again.

[Pitchwife]

Hmm, this does indeed sound very promising. I'm not actually sure that I should play at this time (having a three months old puppy around who demands attention and is still prone to leaving malodorous protest notes all over the house whenever I spend too much time at the computer), but if the sign-up continues as sluggishly as it's been these past days, I'll be sorely tempted (especially with a 3pm CT = 9pm GMT DL, which would be pure candy for me on most Days) - so maybe you can sign me up with a question mark for the time being?

Anyway, a few questions/comments:

1. Does the KD count as an innocent or as a Forger in the tally - i.e. what happens when the village is down to one or two innocents, one Forger and the KD? (If I remember correctly, the 'saboteur' role Zil had in Eönwë's game counted as a wolf, so part of his job description was to get himself lynched along with his packmates.)

2. The above is closely connected with the following:

Originally Posted by Foley

I had thought the game could keep going, but it would be pointless as the night round would be obsolete because the King's Dwarf would stand against any more killing. So I guess at that point, the K.D. would be able to announce himself to the village and they'd kill the last member. But I'm kind of imagining that the members of the Forge would have figured out who the K.D. was by the time they're down to two. I think it'll be a pretty close game.

This situation is going to arise as soon as the next-to-last genuine Forger is lynched and his/her role revealed; at this point the last one will realize that their remaining 'packmate' has to be the KD and will kill him this very Night, before the KD can announce himself to the village. If the Night Watchman is still alive, the KD can try to get himself protected and reveal the next Day, otherwise it'll be game over, Forge wins.
Which means (unless I'm overlooking something) that the game is only winnable for the KD and the innocents if the NW survives long enough. Left to himself, without protection, the KD can't win.

3. Maybe this is just me, but I suggest you reconsider about the Forge gaining instant victory by killing the KD. I feel it's a little hard on the ordinary innocents to make the outcome of the game dependent on the survival of a single player, which is largely beyond their influence (especially under the conditions described above).

4. Will the KD be played by Bruce Dern? After all, Silent Running is his job description, isn't it?

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Hmm, this does indeed sound very promising. I'm not actually sure that I should play at this time (having a three months old puppy around who demands attention and is still prone to leaving malodorous protest notes all over the house whenever I spend too much time at the computer), but if the sign-up continues as sluggishly as it's been these past days, I'll be sorely tempted (especially with a 3pm CT = 9pm GMT DL, which would be pure candy for me on most Days) - so maybe you can sign me up with a question mark for the time being?

I can do that, especially as a lot of players have written me saying that they can't play due to scheduling. It may be a long time before this game actually gets started.

1. Does the KD count as an innocent or as a Forger in the tally - i.e. what happens when the village is down to one or two innocents, one Forger and the KD? (If I remember correctly, the 'saboteur' role Zil had in Eönwë's game counted as a wolf, so part of his job description was to get himself lynched along with his packmates.)

The KD counts as an innocent in the tally.

This situation is going to arise as soon as the next-to-last genuine Forger is lynched and his/her role revealed; at this point the last one will realize that their remaining 'packmate' has to be the KD and will kill him this very Night, before the KD can announce himself to the village. If the Night Watchman is still alive, the KD can try to get himself protected and reveal the next Day, otherwise it'll be game over, Forge wins.
Which means (unless I'm overlooking something) that the game is only winnable for the KD and the innocents if the NW survives long enough. Left to himself, without protection, the KD can't win.

Interesting thought and one that I had not considered.

Maybe this is just me, but I suggest you reconsider about the Forge gaining instant victory by killing the KD. I feel it's a little hard on the ordinary innocents to make the outcome of the game dependent on the survival of a single player, which is largely beyond their influence (especially under the conditions described above).

I put that clause in because it seemed like the KD had so much advantage over the Forges. But upon examining it, I realize that there is plenty of ways the KD might be knocked off and the Forges to regain their usual chances of winning. I will reconsider.

4. Will the KD be played by Bruce Dern? After all, Silent Running is his job description, isn't it?

I'm afraid I don't know who Bruce Dern is, so that reference went over my head.

Now, so far, there are nine names on the list and three of those are put down with question-marks. As I said above, lots of people have written saying they can't play for sometime - weeks or months - and I was wondering if it is advisesable to plan on waiting to start this game until at least some of these players are available? In the mean time, I can be reworking my idea and fine tuning it.

I think it'd be fine to keep this thread up. I like the conversation going on here and the suggestions you all are giving to me - I couldn't make it better without you. And also, if the thread remains up, people can keep signing up, however slowly. Just know, all you who have signed in, it might be a long time before the game actually starts. I'd like to know - are you alright with that?

I'd also like to know what's the minimum number of players? Twelve is what I have in mind, but I feel that might be boring. I'd like closer to fifteen or more. But we don't have more than six certain players, and twelve seems like a hard number to reach, much less fifteen!

[Folwren]

I thought of an idea for another gifted. Thought I'd put it here and see what you all thought.

A type of seer...but instead of finding out if anyone is a Forge member, he will only find out who the King's Dwarf is. So, at night, he'll send me a name by PM and I'll send back a PM saying either, "No, that person is not the K.D" or I'll send back something that says, "Yes, that person is the K.D."

In the story, I was thinking that that character could play in by one day stumbling upon the K.D. doing something that was obviously trying to foil the Forge, like leaving a message for the Night Watchman or something. The dwarf who stumbles upon him realizes he is not one of the Forge members and figures something is odd. Obviously, in the game, we know who all the characters are...

The K.D., I think, will know when he is identified by this character. Should I also tell the K.D. who this person is? Or should that be something that he has to figure out?

What sort of advantage will this give the innocents?

Do I need to think of another gifted?

-- Folwren

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oh, Galadriel, you have so much to learn about over hints.

That's true!, but my question was what is the limit of "saying it outright". I can say "monarch's messenger", and it's very obvious, but it's not saying it directly. Or you could describe the role. There are ways to say it outright without actually saying the word.