Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[Anguirel]

Oh, and

"Like I said, no problem with having fun for a while, but if everybody keeps doing it for the whole game, we don't get anywhere." - Legate

Sheer gold

[Mithalwen]

People having fun? Outrageous! What do they think this is? A game? Pfft

Just becasue some of us intend to enjoy the ride, it doesn't mean we aren't going somewhere

[Thinlómien]

Well I said this game is going to confuse me and that's what it's doing no doubt. That said, I'm at least happy Nog took up the "stiff upper lip house of Finnwë" stuff so I don't need to do that.

You're probably going to kill me for this, but I really do want to lynch the phantom. Both for making fun of me (as if I'd ever protect anyone with such a small head and long sleeves!) and because he's never been lynched on Day1 before. I say it'd be a nice idea to have a shot at him joining our little pack of fenrises. I could also lynch Lottie just for being a tp fangirl, but I guess that's just how she is...

Originally Posted by Nog

And that means also, that getting the lovers and the ranger dead will be the first priority of the wolves: if they die early their return will not help us that much (and a double-protection is not such a mighty weapon in a big village than later) as the living then lose their only shot at any tangible information.

*raises an eyebrow* I think their priority would still be the seer, thank you very much Mr Cobbler.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

3) a player who in dying takes down another is, or rather was the Hunter– for what that's worth. Should be helpful to the Dead, anyway.

Depends how nice our mods are. If the hunter and her victim die in the Night, there's no guarantee we learn which one was the hunter and which one the victim.

Originally Posted by Boro whom I still haven't forgiven for last game

Nog's pinging on my suspicious radar. This is a real early, instant "twitter" impression, but definitely not a good impression. I'm not sure what to make of the "oops, have I missed that in the rules?" but his first post, while cutting straight to the point, looks too much like an attempt to start steering and spinning what Nog wants to spin.

And guess what my "twitter impression" is? I says you're a cobbler trying to send messages to wolves - "steering" sounds duspiciously close to "seering".

Okay I know this might seem paranoid with seeing cobblers everywhere, but there's three of them out there so I'm kind of freaked out with the idea of how many people are trying to mess up with our heads. I'm sure they will come up with some rather ingenious startegies (given their endless lifespan and ability to remain unidentified) and that does not make me happy at all. So, we should really watch out for them too. This is not deny the obvious - wolves should be our preference.

Originally Posted by Mith

no one could be fonder of living horses but I have a practical streak.

I first read this as "but I have a practical steak" and I was like, nice confession mate.

Legate gives me headache. Might just be his style. But really! See how long a novel he writes just to state a few obvious thoughts. I think my head is sort of over-sensitive to headache in big games with new rules, though.

Originally Posted by Sally

Also, clearly Maedhros did it. First little girls, now horses. What will he do next?!

Now, now! You were still backing him up in the latest round of hurt and heal - what happened? Grew some fur, eh?

Originally Posted by Boro

So, first it's like, ok...what's the reason for the pessimism here? It's not all that different. When we make our lynch vote today, unless you've entered with known info, you're not going to know the person's role at the time you're voting. We just won't find out at the day's end, gotta wait a little longer is all.

Quite optimistic, given that the regular scenario is that the wolves spot the seer early on and the ranger lives until the end game, which is kind of unlike what we want this time. In this game, we really got to use our wits (even) more than usual. A random vote from anyone toDay and you have a host of hostile penguins at your door. Just warning.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

2) The wolves are in a bit of a bind here. They need to survive to win, but if they altogether lack representation in the second chamber (qualified for by death) they will be missing out on valuable intelligence and will be vulnerable to a more united front from the Dead. I suspect, therefore, that they will actively want one of their number - probably no more than that, at least for a while - to die as early as possible. They will at least hope that the cobblers do. Maybe they'll try and identify and lynch the cobblers, even.

I pity your packmates! Anyway, interesting thoughts. Shows I haven't given the dead enough thought, for one.


edit: xed with Agan and Mith

[Thinlómien]

Shasta - no alarm bells... yet.
Nogrod - seems ok.
Aganzir - hasn't been killing anyone with a berserk attack of nit-pickiness. Wondering what that means - maybe she's up to no good?
Glirdan - one banter line this far if I'm correct, nothing else. Kind of fishy, I think, but maybe I'll give him the benefit of time zones for now.
A Little Green - is making me and our friends deep fried bananas right now so I can forgive her for not posting.
elronds_daughter - didn't post yet, did she?
Mänwe - only banter this far. Cobbler?
Nerwen - kind of disturbing combination of banter and sharp understanding of facts. Feel like saying cobbler again, but I guess I should come up with something more original to make my suspicion feeling concrete. Wolf?
Loslote - I said already I don't like the fangirlism.
Wilwa - is absent.
Legate - confusing. Cannot judge him yet (if ever). *shudders*
Nessa - absent as well.
Blind Guardian - the only thing I recall from her regarding this game is that she was happy the dead can talk. Should we do her a favour and make her the first one?
satansaloser2005 - fishy as a fish.
the phantom - like I said, annoys me.
Boromir88 - I refrain from judging him in order not to do it wrong this time. Watching.
Mithalwen - seems innocent this far, I think.
Anguirel - still trying to figure out what he's up to.
Fea - not here.

Hmmm. Normally I don't suspect anyone, this time I suspect almost everyone. Not sure if it's any improvement. Shall be away for now, coming back later.


edit: xed with Ang

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

*raises an eyebrow* I think their priority would still be the seer, thank you very much Mr Cobbler.

Actually I disagree. If they manage to kill both Glorfindel and a lover before the seer, there's no one to bring back a word from Mandos.

If the hunter and her victim die in the Night, there's no guarantee we learn which one was the hunter and which one the victim.

Or if the hunter isn't around at the deadline and can't reveal...

Originally Posted by Anguirel

don't really know how I'd handle the role (I feel it would irritate my pride)...I'd much rather be suspected of being a proper carnivore, much more exciting

It's not the best role for people with an ego... but it's possible.

A union of dead Elves who trusted each other with good reason could do the wolves real damage

They have no way of knowing who's good or bad, except via a seer dream, but the longer it takes for the seer to die, the better. Until then, the dead don't know if they're talking with an ordo or a cobbler and can't trust each other with good reason. Therefore I see little risk of a dangerous dead union.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Aganzir - hasn't been killing anyone with a berserk attack of nit-pickiness. Wondering what that means - maybe she's up to no good?

Guess what I almost just did? Quoted your post (about trying to find the cobblers) and said the phrasing looked fishy. Then I was like "oh my god I can't start this."

I don't like how many people still haven't posted. I might vote for one of them just out of principle, or one of my Guilties (preferably Lottie or phantom).

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

it will be incredibly obvious once one of them comes back to life that he can be trusted

As I see it there's nothing that stops the living lover from revealing once her significant other dies. We'll know it soon enough anyway if she isn't telling the truth, and that way the village has a known innocent at least for a day.

By the way Rikae what happens if a lover is lynched and the wolves kill the other? Does the first to die still come back?

2) The Seer should commit suicide right away.

Definitely not. The seer is more useful as long as she's alive because the dead have a rough way of telling whether someone is innocent but the living don't.

3) Glorfindel should... um... I don't know. Commit suicide soon to gain double protections and give us a trusted source until the baddies are forced to flush a kill on him in order to re-dead him? Or stay alive as long as possible to be a late-game news bearer between the threads?

The wolves are more likely to kill him for good once he comes back from Mandos and then we don't have a ranger. If we want to send a messenger to Mandos, it'd make more sense to kill a lover... except then we're two players down. Hmm.

Will be back later.

[Rikae]

One lover needs to be alive to bring the other back, so if the wolves manage to kill the second lover while the first is dead, both stay dead.

[Nogrod]

It looks like Rikae has really thought this out (well of course she has, but I'll say that just to honour her publicly).

We need some information at some point of the game, preferably later. And we know how to get it: our gifted goodies need to sacrifice themselves - and they all come with a prize.

Talking of those who seem to understand our situation, Aganzir and the phantom are okay with me: they seem to make sense and have a hang of our situation (even if I don't agree with their every statement). A cobbler or a wolf can make sense too, but I'm quite happy with them thus far. We need more clearheaded people like them around, especially in this game.

Also Lommy seems to make sense even if she is incorrect in thinking the seer is the prime target. As I said earlier, the lovers and the ranger are, because getting rid of them makes empty any hope of getting any information over the "killed by Night so therefore not a wolf" -cases.

Legate seems his verbiose-self which actually indicates nothing of his role.

A wolf(g)ang wouldn't probably have made those suggestion he made about the wolves willing to [MAJOR PART MISSING FROM HERE - ADDING IT TO THE NEXT POST: WHAT FOLLOWS IN THIS PARAGRAPH IS ABOUT BORO ALREADY AND NOT ANG ANYMORE] him. It's probably not enough to vote for lynching him toDay, but like some say, I'll be watching...

Originally Posted by Mith

People having fun? Outrageous! What do they think this is? A game? Pfft

Isn't that a bit like overdoing something here? And actually what I meant (and I guess some others did) was not that being or having fun is bad. Playing a game that was not fun would be miserable. But if all the game was banter about more or less unrelated topics I see it hard to call it a werewolf game. Random chatting is what one does in the messenger. (And no Mith, I'm not thinking about you as a prime example of that here. *cough Lottie/Shasta cough*


EDIT: X'd with a bunch of posts.
EDIT2: Added a correction in CAPITAL LETTERS...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

A wolf(g)ang wouldn't probably have made those suggestion he made about the wolves willing to [MAJOR PART MISSING FROM HERE - ADDING IT TO THE NEXT POST: WHAT FOLLOWS IN THIS PARAGRAPH IS ABOUT BORO ALREADY AND NOT ANG ANYMORE] him. It's probably not enough to vote for lynching him toDay, but like some say, I'll be watching...

Okay. I must have clicked something very wrong while typing as there clearly are like many sentences missing from here.

What I was trying to say about Ang and Boro is the following:

Ang probably wouldn't have made the suggestions on double-lynches or speculations about wolves willing to send one of them to Mandos if he was a wolf. Too attention-grabbing and wrong.

Boro says he has a Twitter-impression on my posts, I have an Fb-impression on him. It's not enough for me to vote for him toDay, but I'll be watching.


Sorry.

(I hate using a laptop with no mouse as it tends to do all kinds of pickings of it's own...)

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It looks like Rikae has really thought this out (well of course she has, but I'll say that just to honour her publicly).

But if all the game was banter about more or less unrelated topics I see it hard to call it a werewolf game. Random chatting is what one does in the messenger. (And no Mith, I'm not thinking about you as a prime example of that here. *cough Lottie/Shasta cough*
...

But it wasn't all the game was it? It was the first page of the first day when many were asleep or at work. If we all waited until there was something serious to say then we would never get started. I don't think it was all random chatting - Nerwen seemed to identify a confession from Loslote!. Later we may see significance in whom someone whose role we identify has name checked or not. Be able to discern whether someone's banter was the careless chat of a bored innocent or a cobbler's smokescreen. So I do think it is a bit early to get sanctimonious about playing style especially of those who made the effort to show up and get the ball rolling. As a wise man once said this isn't a professional werewolf league... chance remarks often give away more than a studious essay.

[the phantom]

(Thinking out loud here....)

Are all the votes and results completely public on the Dead-Thread? In other words, we all cast votes in the open to give an extra vote as well as voting to discover a roll, and the roll is made public on the thread?

Because private voting is HUGELY different. If everything is public, then it is my opinion that the good side will take swift and total control of the Dead activities. They can coordinate their vote with the Seer dreams, making certain never to repeat anyone, meaning that essentially this village starting tomorrow will have TWO Seer dreams in every single cycle, and that there is no possible way for the Wolves to stop those dreams, and so long as Glorfindel or the Lovers survive for a bit the Living will have an absolute ton of information to work with.

Not to mention that the Dead can indirectly pass information to the Living. The rules say that the narration will reveal each person who receives the extra Dead vote that day. What if the Dead agreed to always give their extra vote to whichever person the Seer dreamed to be innocent!! If we agree to this, then we could pass every innocent dream from the dead Seer to the Living, and if the voting weight is repeated on the same person, that will be a sign that the dream from the previous night was a Wolf (or died), which also could help.

Also, plans could be made on the Dead Thread and passed up to the Living, such as, "Tell them that so-and-so is getting dreamed tonight when I dream, and if that person doesn't receive the extra vote the following day then they must be a Wolf." Are you following me with this, or am I completely off base and forgetting something obvious?

[the phantom]

Seriously, you folks who've done a lot of imagining of situations, tell me if my above post is not possible, because as I'm thinking about this thing it's sort of looking obvious that the Seer should purposefully die, as it would in fact NOT mean the end of communication between him and the Living, particularly if we can agree to the pattern of voting I proposed in which every day the village knows to trust anyone that the Dead handed an extra vote to.

The largest problem I can see is a Seer whose identity is not believed for whatever reason. That could be disaster, but I'm thinking given the players in this game I wouldn't imagine an extensive Seer-bluff over a great period of time could succeed.

Understand also that I'm not at this time proposing this!! All I wish to know now is if my limited time for thinking has caused me to misjudge the situation. IF it is determined that my thoughts are correct, then we can move on to actual discussion of options.

(Basically, I don't want anyone claiming I'm purposefully pushing something harmful in willful ignorance of some key point. I'd be an idiot to assume that said key point won't be brought to light given the makeup of this village.)

Anyway, my time is up for now. I'll be back as soon as my trip home is ended.

[Aganzir]

Okay I'm back because the plans for tonight changed.

Phantom are you keeping in mind that the seer can only dream of dead players after her death? And if she dies without revealing, there's no way the living can tell it was her. What if a dead wolf/cobbler fake reveals as the seer?

[Thinlómien]

Gah. It's too late for messing my head more with possible case scenarios and stuff like that. Sorry for not being around so much - but today happened to be a busy day and toMorrow I'll actually be quite quiet too but then I should have more to say as I will have thought about things more.

++Mänwë

He's been around and apparently able to talk but all he's said this far is banter. That does not look good in my books, no precious, not at all. Not that this is much to go on with! Good night.


edit: xed with Agan