A "Complete Silmarillion" in Spanish - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aran e-Godhellim · 07-23-2009, 05:18 PM

I think the line about Eöl is the most devastating to the theory of Thingol being one of the firstborn. I can't reconcile them at all, and thus I must say that Thingol was of the later generations.

gondowe · 06-10-2010, 04:34 AM

Hello everybody, what about you fellows?
Since my mother dies on 30th January (i hope she are with Morwen, she was Eledhwen too), I did not wrote here, but in February I received the last Parma Eldalamberon, and with the firs part of the Tengwesta, The Descent of Tonges, i made an Appendix new combining this with the text of the Essecenta and other language texts like the ancient Lammas and Of Dwarves and Men.

And one thing brouth me to other and I introduced a change (minor in the context, but important). For me now re-reading the comments of CT, Eöl is not of the kin of Thingol. I think (correct me please) the last annotation of the professor is that Eöl was of the Teleri of the Hithaeglir, and the alussion that the relationship to Thingol would have point, could be a mere good relashionship of live in Nan Elmoth (represented by the gift of Anglachel). of course is an interpretation but for me the internal history is more coherent.

What do you think?

Greetings

gondowe · 06-13-2010, 04:59 AM

Hello again, connecting with the post above, I want to show you the last structure of the texts, naturally is a traduction from my "original" in spanish.

Translations from the Elvish Vol.1

Silmarillion

Ainulindale. The Music of the Ainur

Valaquenta. Account of the Valar and Maiar according to the lore of the Eldar
. Of the Valar
. Of the Maiar
. Of the Enemies

Eldanyare Quenta Silmarillion or History of the Eldar or History of the Silmarils

. 1 Of the Beginning of Time
. 2 Of Valinor and the Two Trees
. 3 Of Aule and Yavanna
. 4 Of the Coming of the Elves and the captivity of Melkor
-Of the awakening of the Elves
-The Chaining of Melkor
. 5 Of Thingol and Melian
. 6 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie
. 7 Of Finwë and Míriel
. 8 Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor
. 9 Of the Silmarilli and the Unrest of the Noldor
. 10 Of the Darkening of Valinor
. 11 Of the Rape of the Silmarils and the Thieves’ Quarrel
. 12 Of the Flight of the Noldor
-Of the speech of Fëanor upon Tuna
-Of the First Kin-slaying and the Doom of the Noldor
. 13 Of the Sindar
-Of Dwarves
-Of the building of Menegroth
-Of the coming of Denethor
-Of the First battle of the Wars of Beleriand
. 14 Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor
. 15 Of Men
. 16 Of the return of the Noldor
-Of the Second battle: Dagor-nuin-Gilliath
. 17 Of the Siege of Angband
-Of the Third battle: Dagor Aglareb
. 18 Of Beleriand and its Realms
. 19 Of Turgon and the Building of Gondolin
. 20 Of Maeglin. Sister-son of Turgon, King of Gondolin
. 21 Of the Coming of the Edain & their Hauses and Lordships in Beleriand
-Of the Coming of Men into the West and the Metting of the Edain and the Eldar
-Of the Kindreds and Houses of the Edain
. 22 Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin
-Of the Fourth battle: Dagor Bragollach
-The Death of Fingolfin
-Of the Swarthy Men
-Of the Sige of Eithel Sirion and the Fall of Galdor
. 23 Of Beren and Lúthien
-Of the meeting of Beren and Lúthien
-Of the Quest of the Silmaril
-Of the Wolf-hunt of Carcharoth
-Of the song of Lúthien in Mandos
. 24 Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad
-Of the Union of Maedhros
. 25 Of Túrin Turambar
. 26 Of the Fate of Húrin and Morwen
. 27 Of the Nauglamír and the Ruin of Doriath
-Of the Second Kin-slaying
. 28 Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin
. 29 Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the rising of the Star
-Of the Third Kin-slaying
. 30 Of the Great Battle and the War of Wrath
-Of the Last End of the Oath of Fëanor and his Sons
-Of the Passing of the Elves
-The Second Prophecy of Mandos

Appendix

A LAWS AND CUSTOMS AMONG THE ELDAR
-The Converse of Manwë and Eru
B Of Death and the Children of Eru, and the Marring of Men. Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth
-The Tale of Adanel
C Of Tongues. Herein are several extracts and comments mostly from The Lammas or Account of Tongues
-Lambion Ontale. The Descent of Tongues
-The division of Tongues
-Of the speech of Dwarves
-Of the Atani and their tongues
-Essecenta Eldarinwa. Enquiry into the origins of Elvish names. (extracts)
-Meanings and use of the various terms applied to the Elves.
-The Clan-names
-Elvish names for Men
-Elvish names for the Dwarves
-Elvish names for the Orcs
-Kwen, Quenya and the Elvish(specially Noldorin) words for "Language"
-Note on the "Language of the Valar"
-Ósanwe-centa. Enquiry into the Communication of Thought. (résumé of Pengolodh's discussion)
D Cuivienyarna. The legend of the awaking of the Quendi
E Yénonótie. The Tale of Years.

Maps

Translations from the Elvish Vol.2

Atanatarion

ATANATARION ó NERN IN EDENEDAIR Tales of the Fathers of Men

Narn Beren ion Barahir or Narn e·Dinúviel or The lay of Leithian
1 Of Thingol in Doriath, Of Lúthien the Beloved, Of Daeron Minstrel of Thingol, of the meeting of Thingol and Melian
2 Of Morgoth, Of the Saving of King Finrod Felagund by the XII Beorings, Of Tarn Aeluin the Blesses, Of Gorlim Unhappy
3 Of the revenge of Beren & his Escape
4 Of the Coming of Beren to Doriath and his meeting with Lúthien
5 Of Beren before Thingol
6 Of Beren in Nargothrond
7 Of Beren and Finrod before Sauron
8 Of Luthien's captivity in Doriath
9 Of Huan y Lúthien in Nargothrond
10 Of the death of Finrod and the defeat of Sauron
11 Of the attack by Celegorm and Curufin
12 Of the disguising of Beren and Lúthien and the journey to Angband
13 Of the meeting with Carcharoth
14 Of Beren and Luthien in Angband and the rape of the Silmaril
15 Of the Escape from Angband
16 Of the Wolf-hunt
17 Of the Song of Lúthien in Mandos and her Choices

Narn e·mbar Hador
. Narn i Chîn Húrin or Narn e·’Rach Morgoth

1 The Childhood of Túrin
2 The Battle of Unnumbered Tears
3 The Words of Húrin and Morgoth
4 The Departure of Túrin
5 Túrin in Doriath
6 Túrin among the Outlaws
7 Of Mîm the Dwarf
8 The Land of Bow and Helm
9 The Death of Beleg
10 Túrin in Nargothrond
11 The Fall of Nargothrond
12 The Return of Túrin to Dor-Lómin
13 The coming of Túrin into Brethil
14 The Journey of Morwen and Nienor to Nargothrond
15 Niënor in Brethil
16 The Coming of Glaurung
17 The Death of Glaurung
18 The Death of Túrin
Appendix: The Wanderings of Húrin
-The Shadow falls on Brethil
-Húrin in Nargothrond
-Húrin in Doriath

Narn e·Dant Gondolin

1 The birth of Tuor
2 Tuor slave and outlaw
3 The call of Ulmo
4 The arriving at Vinyamar
5 The speech of Tuor and Ulmo
6 Voronwë
7 The quest of Gondolin
8 The hidden pass
9 The arriving at Gondolin
10 Of Tuor in Gondolin and the birth of the New Star
11 The Treason of Maeglin
12 The Battle of Gondolin
13 The Flight of the exiles

Map

Translations from the Elvish Vol.3

The Second and Third Ages

The Second Age

First Part: Númenor

Atalante or Akallabeth. The Fall of Númenor
Appendix
1 A description of the Island of Númenor
2 Indis i-Kiryamo: The Mariner´s Wife
3 The line of Elros

Second Part: Middle Earth

Of the rings of power and the last alliance of Elves and Men
Appendix
The Tale of Years of the Second Age

The Third Age

Of the last end of Sauron and the beginning of the dominion of Men
Of Aragorn and Arwen Undomiel
Appendix
1 The Heirs of Elendil
2 The Tale of Years of the Third Age

General index of names

Maps

Greetings.

Findegil · 08-30-2010, 09:37 AM

Nice to hear you are still active, Gondowe.

Sorry that we can not say the same about our own project.

Concerning the contents of your projected books:
What I miss is a tale of the years of the first age. I know that we have that only for the last couple of years but I still think in your kind of project it should be included.

Anyway, what I observed also is that you would try to bring both versions of the big tales: a short one in the body of the 'Quenta Silmarillion' and an extanded one in the collection of the 'Atanatarion'.

Do you not fear that tahs might lead to a big deal of repeatition of one and the same text in all the places were the full versions of th ebig tales break off?

Respectfuly
Findegil

Aiwendil · 08-30-2010, 03:16 PM

Good to see both of you around! I'm very sorry to hear about your mother, Gondowe, and I wish you the best.

I'm hoping to have some time to devote to getting our project moving again in the near future (within the next month or so). If October rolls around and you haven't heard more from me, please pester me about it!

Findegil · 08-31-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

If October rolls around and you haven't heard more from me, please pester me about it!

I promise to do so.

Respectfuly
Findegil

gondowe · 09-02-2010, 01:09 PM

Nice to read you again, we are there till the end.

Thank you for about my mother, the battle against the cancer (send by Morgoth) was very hard.

Findegil wrote.
What I miss is a tale of the years of the first age. I know that we have that only for the last couple of years but I still think in your kind of project it should be included.

Its included as the last Appendix of Volume one. E Yenonotie. The Tale of Years.

About the other matter, really its a case of repeatition, but I shortened anyway lots of it, (its a real pity that you cannot read it for being in spanish, to compare).

Anyway I feel fine with it, because its the most approached to the knowed final structure projects of the professor, if Tolkien wanted to repeat the story, amen ( evidently with other words). But we only have what we have.

What do you think about the matter of Eol in the post above.

Greetings

06-10-2010, 04:34 AM	#42
gondowe Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 57	An ampliation with an Appendix and other things Hello everybody, what about you fellows? Since my mother dies on 30th January (i hope she are with Morwen, she was Eledhwen too), I did not wrote here, but in February I received the last Parma Eldalamberon, and with the firs part of the Tengwesta, The Descent of Tonges, i made an Appendix new combining this with the text of the Essecenta and other language texts like the ancient Lammas and Of Dwarves and Men. And one thing brouth me to other and I introduced a change (minor in the context, but important). For me now re-reading the comments of CT, Eöl is not of the kin of Thingol. I think (correct me please) the last annotation of the professor is that Eöl was of the Teleri of the Hithaeglir, and the alussion that the relationship to Thingol would have point, could be a mere good relashionship of live in Nan Elmoth (represented by the gift of Anglachel). of course is an interpretation but for me the internal history is more coherent. What do you think? Greetings Last edited by gondowe : 06-13-2010 at 07:58 AM.

06-13-2010, 04:59 AM	#43
gondowe Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 57	Hello again, connecting with the post above, I want to show you the last structure of the texts, naturally is a traduction from my "original" in spanish. Translations from the Elvish Vol.1 Silmarillion Ainulindale. The Music of the Ainur Valaquenta. Account of the Valar and Maiar according to the lore of the Eldar . Of the Valar . Of the Maiar . Of the Enemies Eldanyare Quenta Silmarillion or History of the Eldar or History of the Silmarils . 1 Of the Beginning of Time . 2 Of Valinor and the Two Trees . 3 Of Aule and Yavanna . 4 Of the Coming of the Elves and the captivity of Melkor -Of the awakening of the Elves -The Chaining of Melkor . 5 Of Thingol and Melian . 6 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie . 7 Of Finwë and Míriel . 8 Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor . 9 Of the Silmarilli and the Unrest of the Noldor . 10 Of the Darkening of Valinor . 11 Of the Rape of the Silmarils and the Thieves’ Quarrel . 12 Of the Flight of the Noldor -Of the speech of Fëanor upon Tuna -Of the First Kin-slaying and the Doom of the Noldor . 13 Of the Sindar -Of Dwarves -Of the building of Menegroth -Of the coming of Denethor -Of the First battle of the Wars of Beleriand . 14 Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor . 15 Of Men . 16 Of the return of the Noldor -Of the Second battle: Dagor-nuin-Gilliath . 17 Of the Siege of Angband -Of the Third battle: Dagor Aglareb . 18 Of Beleriand and its Realms . 19 Of Turgon and the Building of Gondolin . 20 Of Maeglin. Sister-son of Turgon, King of Gondolin . 21 Of the Coming of the Edain & their Hauses and Lordships in Beleriand -Of the Coming of Men into the West and the Metting of the Edain and the Eldar -Of the Kindreds and Houses of the Edain . 22 Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin -Of the Fourth battle: Dagor Bragollach -The Death of Fingolfin -Of the Swarthy Men -Of the Sige of Eithel Sirion and the Fall of Galdor . 23 Of Beren and Lúthien -Of the meeting of Beren and Lúthien -Of the Quest of the Silmaril -Of the Wolf-hunt of Carcharoth -Of the song of Lúthien in Mandos . 24 Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad -Of the Union of Maedhros . 25 Of Túrin Turambar . 26 Of the Fate of Húrin and Morwen . 27 Of the Nauglamír and the Ruin of Doriath -Of the Second Kin-slaying . 28 Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin . 29 Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the rising of the Star -Of the Third Kin-slaying . 30 Of the Great Battle and the War of Wrath -Of the Last End of the Oath of Fëanor and his Sons -Of the Passing of the Elves -The Second Prophecy of Mandos Appendix A LAWS AND CUSTOMS AMONG THE ELDAR -The Converse of Manwë and Eru B Of Death and the Children of Eru, and the Marring of Men. Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth -The Tale of Adanel C Of Tongues. Herein are several extracts and comments mostly from The Lammas or Account of Tongues -Lambion Ontale. The Descent of Tongues -The division of Tongues -Of the speech of Dwarves -Of the Atani and their tongues -Essecenta Eldarinwa. Enquiry into the origins of Elvish names. (extracts) -Meanings and use of the various terms applied to the Elves. -The Clan-names -Elvish names for Men -Elvish names for the Dwarves -Elvish names for the Orcs -Kwen, Quenya and the Elvish(specially Noldorin) words for "Language" -Note on the "Language of the Valar" -Ósanwe-centa. Enquiry into the Communication of Thought. (résumé of Pengolodh's discussion) D Cuivienyarna. The legend of the awaking of the Quendi E Yénonótie. The Tale of Years. Maps Translations from the Elvish Vol.2 Atanatarion ATANATARION ó NERN IN EDENEDAIR Tales of the Fathers of Men Narn Beren ion Barahir or Narn e·Dinúviel or The lay of Leithian 1 Of Thingol in Doriath, Of Lúthien the Beloved, Of Daeron Minstrel of Thingol, of the meeting of Thingol and Melian 2 Of Morgoth, Of the Saving of King Finrod Felagund by the XII Beorings, Of Tarn Aeluin the Blesses, Of Gorlim Unhappy 3 Of the revenge of Beren & his Escape 4 Of the Coming of Beren to Doriath and his meeting with Lúthien 5 Of Beren before Thingol 6 Of Beren in Nargothrond 7 Of Beren and Finrod before Sauron 8 Of Luthien's captivity in Doriath 9 Of Huan y Lúthien in Nargothrond 10 Of the death of Finrod and the defeat of Sauron 11 Of the attack by Celegorm and Curufin 12 Of the disguising of Beren and Lúthien and the journey to Angband 13 Of the meeting with Carcharoth 14 Of Beren and Luthien in Angband and the rape of the Silmaril 15 Of the Escape from Angband 16 Of the Wolf-hunt 17 Of the Song of Lúthien in Mandos and her Choices Narn e·mbar Hador . Narn i Chîn Húrin or Narn e·’Rach Morgoth 1 The Childhood of Túrin 2 The Battle of Unnumbered Tears 3 The Words of Húrin and Morgoth 4 The Departure of Túrin 5 Túrin in Doriath 6 Túrin among the Outlaws 7 Of Mîm the Dwarf 8 The Land of Bow and Helm 9 The Death of Beleg 10 Túrin in Nargothrond 11 The Fall of Nargothrond 12 The Return of Túrin to Dor-Lómin 13 The coming of Túrin into Brethil 14 The Journey of Morwen and Nienor to Nargothrond 15 Niënor in Brethil 16 The Coming of Glaurung 17 The Death of Glaurung 18 The Death of Túrin Appendix: The Wanderings of Húrin -The Shadow falls on Brethil -Húrin in Nargothrond -Húrin in Doriath Narn e·Dant Gondolin 1 The birth of Tuor 2 Tuor slave and outlaw 3 The call of Ulmo 4 The arriving at Vinyamar 5 The speech of Tuor and Ulmo 6 Voronwë 7 The quest of Gondolin 8 The hidden pass 9 The arriving at Gondolin 10 Of Tuor in Gondolin and the birth of the New Star 11 The Treason of Maeglin 12 The Battle of Gondolin 13 The Flight of the exiles Map Translations from the Elvish Vol.3 The Second and Third Ages The Second Age First Part: Númenor Atalante or Akallabeth. The Fall of Númenor Appendix 1 A description of the Island of Númenor 2 Indis i-Kiryamo: The Mariner´s Wife 3 The line of Elros Second Part: Middle Earth Of the rings of power and the last alliance of Elves and Men Appendix The Tale of Years of the Second Age The Third Age Of the last end of Sauron and the beginning of the dominion of Men Of Aragorn and Arwen Undomiel Appendix 1 The Heirs of Elendil 2 The Tale of Years of the Third Age General index of names Maps Greetings. Last edited by gondowe : 06-13-2010 at 08:04 AM.

09-02-2010, 01:09 PM	#47
gondowe Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 57	Hello Findegil and Aiwendil Nice to read you again, we are there till the end. Thank you for about my mother, the battle against the cancer (send by Morgoth) was very hard. Findegil wrote. What I miss is a tale of the years of the first age. I know that we have that only for the last couple of years but I still think in your kind of project it should be included. Its included as the last Appendix of Volume one. E Yenonotie. The Tale of Years. About the other matter, really its a case of repeatition, but I shortened anyway lots of it, (its a real pity that you cannot read it for being in spanish, to compare). Anyway I feel fine with it, because its the most approached to the knowed final structure projects of the professor, if Tolkien wanted to repeat the story, amen ( evidently with other words). But we only have what we have. What do you think about the matter of Eol in the post above. Greetings

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07-23-2009, 05:18 PM	#41
Aran e-Godhellim Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: The Halls of Mandos Posts: 86	I think the line about Eöl is the most devastating to the theory of Thingol being one of the firstborn. I can't reconcile them at all, and thus I must say that Thingol was of the later generations.

08-30-2010, 09:37 AM	#44
Findegil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 727	Nice to hear you are still active, Gondowe. Sorry that we can not say the same about our own project. Concerning the contents of your projected books: What I miss is a tale of the years of the first age. I know that we have that only for the last couple of years but I still think in your kind of project it should be included. Anyway, what I observed also is that you would try to bring both versions of the big tales: a short one in the body of the 'Quenta Silmarillion' and an extanded one in the collection of the 'Atanatarion'. Do you not fear that tahs might lead to a big deal of repeatition of one and the same text in all the places were the full versions of th ebig tales break off? Respectfuly Findegil

08-30-2010, 03:16 PM	#45
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 1,830	Good to see both of you around! I'm very sorry to hear about your mother, Gondowe, and I wish you the best. I'm hoping to have some time to devote to getting our project moving again in the near future (within the next month or so). If October rolls around and you haven't heard more from me, please pester me about it!