WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[Glirdan]

Ten minutes left with 4 people to vote.

The tally stands thus:

Folwren --> Eonwe
Greenie --> Mac
Kath --> BeiGei
Lalaith --> Boromir
Zil --> BeiGei 2
Nienna --> Eonwe 2
Sally --> BeiGei 3
Nog --> Nerwen
Wilwa --> BeiGei 4
Mira --> BeiGei 5
Rikae --> the phantom
Mc --> Nerwen 2
BeiGei --> Zil
Shasta --> Eonwe 3
Lottie --> Eonwe 4
Tum --> BeiGei 6


Xed with a few ppl

[the phantom]

I feel really stupid for defending Eonwe and suspecting Nog for his suspicion of Eonwe, but then I VOTE for Eonwe.

This is one of those days I'd like to forget.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now, if he really wants to get killed, what would he do? Raise the awareness of the wolves, surely. The "wolf!" post was the first trial and the Dionysos thing was his second... but then he wanted to make sure he got the attention and went for that great idea of rangers doing double-shift... if they didn't get the hint from the earlier ones, the wolves should find him dangerous and thus kill him!

Mmmn. I have said this already, but it's not in the Cursed's interest to make extremely obvious hints. Why become a wolf if it means dying almost immediately? That doesn't prove Steve isn't the Cursed, but it would be clumsier playing than I'd expect of him.

EDIT:X'd with a host.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now, if he really wants to get killed, what would he do? Raise the awareness of the wolves, surely. The "wolf!" post was the first trial and the Dionysos thing was his second... but then he wanted to make sure he got the attention and went for that great idea of rangers doing double-shift... if they didn't get the hint from the earlier ones, the wolves should find him dangerous and thus kill him!

Maybe he was waiting for more immediate feedback or just tried all his options as they came to him, I don't know. And obviously I'm not 100% sure about it, but it looks like it really all talks about the same thing. All those posts could be seen as ways to attract the wolves into killing him - and that's a lot from one person on one Day just randomly!

See! You can twist anything to make your point, but it doesn't make your point right.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

for example his suspicion of me would mean I have to go against both my role and even the spirit of the game.

Not at all... If you knew you were the cursed already in the beginning (as Glirdy said the cursed would know it) then it would be the most understandable leaning... some I know might have leaned with the village but I'm afraid most would have just died for getting to be a cursed wolf in the middle of the game...

And if the one knew it beforehand there would be no problem with the spirit of the game as the problem is in the rules...

[Boromir88]

I said Blind was about a 5 on the scale of 1 to 10. Eonwe's looking like a "neg" 4, so

++Eonwe

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Not at all... If you knew you were the cursed already in the beginning (as Glirdy said the cursed would know it) then it would be the most understandable leaning... some I know might have leaned with the village but I'm afraid most would have just died for getting to be a cursed wolf in the middle of the game...

And if the one knew it beforehand there would be no problem with the spirit of the game as the problem is in the rules...

But isn't the Cursed meant to play on the side of the village until they become a wolf?

[Blind Guardian]

Yes! Yes! Two more votes for Eonwe! Please!

[Glirdan]

2 Minutes to DL

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

Now here we disagree again - and it is nice to see you taking that up as I let that out from my final account of him to see would anyone else take it up and in what way would they do it.

Now, if he really wants to get killed, what would he do? Raise the awareness of the wolves, surely. The "wolf!" post was the first trial and the Dionysos thing was his second... but then he wanted to make sure he got the attention and went for that great idea of rangers doing double-shift... if they didn't get the hint from the earlier ones, the wolves should find him dangerous and thus kill him!

Maybe he was waiting for more immediate feedback or just tried all his options as they came to him, I don't know. And obviously I'm not 100% sure about it, but it looks like it really all talks about the same thing. All those posts could be seen as ways to attract the wolves into killing him - and that's a lot from one person on one Day just randomly!

His "wolf!" comment was throwaway. If we find out postgame that it wasn't I promise to eat some of that horrible black liquorice you Finns and Rune forced me to try.

His Dion comment was too obvious I think, and just an attempt to be in character.

And then you say he suggested something dangerous so as to be killed? You really think WWs are going to kill someone because he suggests one helpful thing? No, no- they'll be gunning for the Seer like always.

Not to mention if he's screaming "cursed" to the WWs he's just as likely to be the Ordo hoping for the WWs to flush their kill. You realize don't you that the Ordo in this game would be quite wise to sacrifice himself early to save all of his more powerful counterparts?

[Blind Guardian]

Vote Eonwe! Vote Eonwe!

[Eönwë]

I really don't want to, but it looks like I'm going to have to vote:

++Blind Guardian

It's too close. I'm sorry BG.

[Loslote]

Ehem. If we lynch Steve and Steve is innocent, may I suggest we look at Nog? If I recall correctly, he was all for not lynching Steve, but leaving him be and lynching him if the Cursed was turned. This would not only effectively silence a potential innocent threat, it would also provide an extra layer of protection for the real Cursed.

Not to say that I think this is exactly how it played out and that Steve's as innocent as snow, but he does make good points, and if we hadn't lynched Steve toDay, it would've been a really really good plan for wolf!Nog. Just throwin' that out there.

EDIT: xed with people...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

it's not in the Cursed's interest to make extremely obvious hints. Why become a wolf if it means dying almost immediately?

Like with the suspicions about yourself you're playing the one being wise afterwards... How did he know he would get that suspected about the things he ranted about early in the Day? Well, he didn't.

In many games those would have been ignored -and many of you seemed to be quite ready to ignire them to the end. So? Extremely obvious? No. Securely true? No.

[Nerwen]

++Nogrod

Yeah, it's a throwaway. I had to hold my vote in case I needed it, and now I'm not happy jumping on either bandwagon.

EDIT:x'd with numerous.

[Blind Guardian]

NO! I hate you!


That's not fair!

[Glirdan]

And that's TIME

STOP POSTING

[Glirdan]

With a total of 7 votes, BeiGei has been lynched.

Her role was Aphrodite, Goddess of Love and Beauty, thus making one Lover pair obsolete. With her death, nothing happens. Hephaestus may continue on his merry little way.

A proper narration will be up later throughout the Night.

As it stands now....

NIGHT 2 HAS BEGUN
Wolves may start PMing
Zeus and Hera may start PMing
Eros and Artemis may start PMing
Shirrifs may continue to PM


Wolves need to send me their kill
Seers need to send me their dreams
Persephone needs to send me their guess
Hestia needs to send me a name
Eros and Pan need to send me their protections
Artemis needs to send me their hunt

Will have the list of the live and dead with the death narration.

[Glirdan]

At the end of the Day, the Gods congregated once more in the Grand Chamber. There had been much speculating and discussion that day, almost enough to fill a short story with in fact.

Yet none of this seemed to appeal to Aphrodite...She seemed to be in a trance all day and did not show any sign of recognition, for anyone. She merely gazed up at the sky, starry-eyed and lost. Hercules tried to help her remember who she was and who Hephaestus was, but she just pushed him away. Athena and Artemis tried to engage her in a conversation on love, but she just brushed by them.

She just gazed, helpless up towards the heaven's, unsure of what to do. She went to her chambers to be alone...

It was not until everyone was settling in for the Night that they smelt it; fire coming from Aphrodite's room. Hercules, Athena and Artemis ran in but were too late...The fire had completely subsided, and all that was left were the burnt remains of Aphrodite (which was odd seeing as nothing could kill a God but another God), and most peculiar, a folded up piece of parchment in her hand. Hercules went to grab it, and her had turned to dust.

He unfolded the parchment and scribbled there, in blood was a broken heart...

Dead
Night 1 - Glirdan aka. Thanatos (Mod) - Scythe through the stomach
Day 1 - BeiGei aka. Aphrodite (Lover) - Suicide of a broken heart

Alive
Wilwa
Kath
Boro
Mira
Zil
Lottie
Eonwe
Nienna
Nerwen
Folwren
Tum
Lalaith
Greenie
Rikae
Shasta
Mac
Nog
Phantom
Sally

[Glirdan]

The dead of the Night brought no calm for some of the inhabitants of Mount Olympus.

Apollo was in a trance, trying to see who was who. Hermes could be seen flying around, trying to gain information for his Masters. Zeus and Hera were sealed away in their bed chamber, plotting who knows what. Athena and Pan were out patrolling the halls of Mount Olympus. Even Hestia was out that Night, up to who knows what.

Nowhere on Olympus was safe anymore...

IT IS STILL NIGHT 1
Persephone needs to send me a guess
Eros needs to send me a name to protect
The Wolves need to send me a kill

[Glirdan]

The coming of the dawn brought no good news for the Gods. As they assembled in the Grand Chamber, they did a headcount to see if anybody else was missing. It was not until Zeus asked about his messages that they noticed Hermes was missing. It was odd for him ever to be late, especially since he also happened to be one of the fastest Gods on Olympus and he made sure he had punctuality down to a T. Yet he did not arrive.

The Gods scoured the mountain, hoping they would find him napping somewhere. It was not until the all gathered in the grand chamber that they noticed something peculiar behind Zeus's throne; there were feet poking out from behind it. As they gathered closer, it was not the only thing they noticed. It was Hermes, dead, the wings from his shoes sticking from his eyes. His fist was clenched, as if he was holding on to a message of great importance, but there was no parchment in his hand.

The Gods dispersed, feeling more morose and afraid then before. Day 2 of the Twilight was upon them.

Dead
Night 1 - Glirdan aka. Thanatos (Mod) - Scythe through the stomach
Day 1 - BeiGei aka. Aphrodite (Lover) - Suicide of a broken heart
Night 2 - Boro aka. Hermes (Seer) - Wings through the eyes

Alive
Wilwa
Kath
Mira
Zil
Lottie
Eonwe
Nienna
Nerwen
Folwren
Tum
Lalaith
Greenie
Rikae
Shasta
Mac
Nog
Phantom
Sally

IT IS NOW DAY 2
Everyone but the Shirrifs need to stop PMing.

Everybody start posting.

[Loslote]

I would have posted this a lot sooner, but I think you know what I mean when I say that it took me a while to come up with a phrasing that did not get me modfired. As it is, I will skip the "bugger" talk because there really is no polite way to say what I want to say, and let's have us a little list:

Innocent:
Lottie

More innocent than not:
Zil
Steve
Greenie
Nerwen
Rikae
Wilwa?

We all live in a yellow submarine and/or I've no clue:
Sally
Shasta
Nienna
Folwren
Lalaith
Kath
Mira
Phantom

I want to see dead because they are evil, precious, evil:
Tum
Nog
Mac?

If we lynch Tum, I would be very very happy. If we lynch Nog, I would be nearly as happy. If we lynch Mac, I would not argue against this. If we lynch anyone else, I would headdesk.

Side note: Due to an unfortunate and only just now realized conflict in schedules, I may or may not be around much. I'm going to go hike a mountain eight and a half hours before dl and won't be back until at most an hour and a half before dl...so yeah. Sorry 'bout that. I will almost certainly be able to vote.

[the phantom]

Well, one lover down, one Seer down.

I'm surprised at two things. First, that Boro said "seer" three times in his opening post, as well as used the words "see", "watch", and "glasses". I know Boro is bold and likes baiting the other side, but that's a bit much even for him. My leading suspicion of why he would make such remarks was that he was the lone Ordo and thought maybe he could attract a kill or better yet a Ranger save, or that he was cursed and wished to be turned.

The second thing that surprises me is that the Wolves did indeed shoot for him. Personally I would have been mighty paranoid that I was being tricked by old Boro.

Next question- which Seer was he, and who did he think had which role?

It's quite obvious that the beginning of his first post is full of hints (all of those buzzwords), and now we know that he wasn't kidding. But as far as naming his actual dream, the first post doesn't appear to fit the bill. The only player mentioned in the post is me, and he is quite noncommital with his placement of my loyalties-

Originally Posted by Boro

One thing I am quite certain of is phantom will come up with a plan that will best achieve victory for whoever he's allied with, be it wolves, lover, or the great Zeus.

If he be allied with the wolves, we will all object to his plan because we don't want to admit it's a good plan, and proceed to lynch one of the seers.

If he be allied with a lover, we will all object to his plan, because we don't want to admit it's a good plan, and proceed to lynch one of the seers.

If he be allied with the almighty Zeus, we will all object to his plan....oh you get the idea.

Best just go with what he counsels unless it's, "lynch the seer."

So, he says that I could be on the side of the WWs, on the side of the Lovers, or on the side of Zeus. The fact that Zeus is redundant he explained later-

Originally Posted by Boro

As for my Zeus remarks, I legit figured since he is my ultimate God of Gods (and sans the Disney version reviled the wench Hera) he was a defacto good guy. Wasn't thinking that indepth at 5:30 AM when I have important deliveries to run.

So what he was meaning was that I was either with the WWs, with the Lovers, or with the Village. Not particularly pointing in any direction. And in case it wasn't clear enough, later he said this-

Originally Posted by Boro

Zeus has absolutely nothing to do with those intentions, you're looking at the wrong part.

Which to me says that the main bit we are supposed to take away from that first post is simply "Hey guys, I'm the Seer", and that the role and alignment talk was meaningless.

So moving onto other posts, does he give anything definitive? He mentions several people in a post a bit later, giving various levels of innocence and suspicion. The one who looks the most innocent is Nog-

Originally Posted by Boro

I've got a fairly good feeling about Nog

Not terribly convincing I would say, but better than anything else in that post.

But then he makes a post later directed at Mira (aka Keeper) saying this-

Originally Posted by Boro

Rest assured you still know me quite well, thanks dear. Now, if I know you well, hopefully you read this ere the night ends, and hopefully it doesn't confuse you. Don't hestitate to pick me, sorry for any trouble, I gotta know.

Um... what? I have no clue what he's saying there, but it looks like he's up to something or other. Any thoughts Mira?

And finally there is his vote, which is the most definite negative thing he says about someone-

Originally Posted by Boro

I said Blind was about a 5 on the scale of 1 to 10. Eonwe's looking like a "neg" 4, so

++ Eonwe

All in all I'd have to say this is the best I can come up with for his dream choice, because earlier speaking to BG he said this-

Originally Posted by Boro

Anyone who's not a wolf, who dies will probably hurt us ya know. I can say the same about myself, the question in this will be the degree of hurt. Cus right now I'd venture to guess that on a scale of 1 to 10...if I were theoretically up to be lynched, and I was, it would probably hurt the village about a 7. You, I'm pegging at a 5 so far.

So, he defines his scale and says that anyone other than a WW would rate some level of hurt on the scale, and then when he votes against Eonwe he rates him at a negative four, meaning that it would not hurt us to lose him.

So, given those two facts-
1) Losing anyone other than a WW would rate somewhere 1 to 10
2) Losing Eonwe would NOT rate somewhere 1 to 10

Eonwe = Wolf

So, in the end, that's my best guess at his Seer dream. But of course we don't know if he's the real Seer or not.

[the phantom]

There. I've done my Boro read-through. Now can I finally go to bed?

[Nerwen]

20/20 hindsight says this was a hint to Hephaestus:

Originally Posted by Aphrodite, Goddess of Love and Beauty

I've drinken and I'm not 16. It's where I get my good looks from. Though I'm not French. Though I wouldn't drink that much, true. Dionyses doesn't have a lover. So is Eönwë hinting that he's Dionyses?

Question is, did Hephaestus pick it up?

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well, one lover down, one Seer down.

I'm surprised at two things. First, that Boro said "seer" three times in his opening post, as well as used the words "see", "watch", and "glasses". I know Boro is bold and likes baiting the other side, but that's a bit much even for him. My leading suspicion of why he would make such remarks was that he was the lone Ordo and thought maybe he could attract a kill or better yet a Ranger save, or that he was cursed and wished to be turned.

The second thing that surprises me is that the Wolves did indeed shoot for him. Personally I would have been mighty paranoid that I was being tricked by old Boro.

Maybe that's it: he hoped to double-bluff them into thinking "Oh, it's just Boro pulling our legs, as usual".

Alternatively, he might have been very confident of being protected last Night. You'd think he'd be afraid the Ranger and Hunting Guardian would assume he was bluffing too– as was the case, it seems.

Originally Posted by the phantom

But then he makes a post later directed at Mira (aka Keeper) saying this-

Um... what? I have no clue what he's saying there, but it looks like he's up to something or other. Any thoughts Mira?

Well, since you've drawn attention to it: it looks like he thought she had one of the protective roles– but if so, why put her in jeopardy like that? Or was he hoping to trick the wolves into thinking he was indeed a hinting Lover?

Originally Posted by the phantom

And finally there is his vote, which is the most definite negative thing he says about someone-

All in all I'd have to say this is the best I can come up with for his dream choice, because earlier speaking to BG he said this-

So, he defines his scale and says that anyone other than a WW would rate some level of hurt on the scale, and then when he votes against Eonwe he rates him at a negative four, meaning that it would not hurt us to lose him.

So, given those two facts-
1) Losing anyone other than a WW would rate somewhere 1 to 10
2) Losing Eonwe would NOT rate somewhere 1 to 10

Eonwe = Wolf

So, in the end, that's my best guess at his Seer dream. But of course we don't know if he's the real Seer or not.

He might have been simply talking about the Eonwe-Dionysus business.
The fact that the wolves went ahead and killed him doesn't look too good for Steve, however. (Although, I suppose it could also point to wolves who haven't played with Boro much before, and just took his double-bluff, if that's what it was, at face value.)

[A Little Green]

Whoa. I kind of like coming here with a lot to say.. I'll start with Boro. Phantom's theory is interesting. The first thing that popped into my mind upon finding out that Boro was one of the Seers was that he dreamed Phantom was Hera. Why? I figured that "allied to the almighty Zeus" or however he phrased it would mean Hera, and he was talking about phantom at the time. (And please folks, don't club me in the head for thinking too simply. Not yet, at least.) But why would a Boroseer who has found a wolf a) make such obvious references to being a Seer and still b) leave such vague but obvious hints as to who the wolf is? Now if phantom indeed is Hera, the wolves will have spotted that immediately and done off with Boro (who they pretty much have now pinned down as the real Seer). But the thing is, Boro will have known this would happen if he makes such blatant hints and happens to be in fact the real Seer. So I'm thinking - maybe he did that on purpose, to see if the wolves attacked him - because if (or rather, when) they did, it would almost prove that they caught his hint, ergo phantom is proven to be a wolf.

Now, my theory, obviously, has a couple of flaws. The first and most obvious one is that Boro could have been the false seer (who still did the same or some different scheme), and the wolves just picked on the Seer hints. The second flaw is that I have no way of knowing exactly what Boro had in mind and could be way off the wall with this entire thing. Just something to think about. (I'm not even sure if I managed to write it in a way that makes the slightest bit of sense..)

I'll be back with some thoughts on yesterDay.


EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

[Lalaith]

Interesting ideas about Boro. I missed the Mira/Keeper comment that phantom picked up on, it's ambiguous to say the least. As for my thoughts - reading over the thread yesterday, I thought I had picked up on Hunter hints from Boro.

Wilwa and Mac know better, if they're wolves to try and pick a fight and lynch me this early, because they know I wouldn't go down easily and in the veyr least if I died they would follow. Wilwa I like slightly more than Greenie in all of it.

In hindsight, it is of course good Seer tactics to pretend to be a Hunter. But would any of the above-named, if indeed they were wolves, seemingly being threatened, have risked a Boro kill?

[A Little Green]

Now, the Eonwe-Dionysus-thing bothered me. For the first thing, I think people (namely Nog and Lottie, but also others) were/are over-eager to pin him down as Dionysus, based on arguments that don't hold water. Like Eonwe himself pointed out, the cursed is on the village's side until they are turned, ie. they should have no reason whatsoever to hint at the wolves in the first place, let alone as openly as Eonwe did if you read his posts as hints.

Originally Posted by Nog

And if the one knew it beforehand there would be no problem with the spirit of the game as the problem is in the rules...

I totally disagree with this, but I think we're slipping to general rules discussion again if I start ranting about it.. Just to be fair, though, I might not agree with Nog's logic but I don't agree with Eonwe's, either:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Much too obvious, as I said. And because he's sticking to this so much, maybe Nogrod's a wolf who's trying to double-bluff by suggesting that I'm the Cursed so that if it turns out that I am, he could seem like he was trying to help the village, while totally distancing himself from the wolves (who would probably try to keep it quiet). In fact, maybe this whole thing is something Nogrod decided to latch onto because doing this would make him seem so un-wolvish.

I wouldn't pin Nog down as wolvish, but rather as staying up way too late. He was behaving in an illogical way and pursuing the Eonwe thing way too much, but I'm not convinced it points to furriness. Eonwe's jump on him is understandable but I'm not sure about the validity of the argument. I'll rant some more on Nogrod in posts to come, I think.

As for Eonwe being a wolf Boroseer hinted at - I'm not sure. Could be, of course, but he doesn't strike me as particularly suspicious. Of course Boro could have hinted at him and just been the false Seer, or then he was the real Seer, dreamed of Eonwe, and I'm off my rocker. Argh. I could reread Eonwe I suppose, but then again, if I have the time to reread someone I'd prefer to try someone who escapes the genreal notice and isn't talked about all that much.

A rant about the voting yesterDay coming up!


EDIT: x-ed with Lalaith

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

In hindsight, it is of course good Seer tactics to pretend to be a Hunter. But would any of the above-named, if indeed they were wolves, seemingly being threatened, have risked a Boro kill?

Yes, it's an interesting little knot. Normally, you'd think the wolves would be safe in assuming it was a bluff– but then it seems they took his equally blatant Seer-hints seriously.

EDIT:X'd with Greenie.

[the phantom]

Greenie- your theory about Boro pointing to me as Hera has two major flaws.

I'll start with the obvious one- I'm not Hera. Now, you may say he is the false Seer and spotted me as Hera, or that I am lying, but that's where flaw number two comes in- the flaw that is the most obvious and provable to the rest of the village-

Boro himself negated the idea.

Boro made a point of saying that his "allied with Zeus" comment was a mistake (he had thought of Zeus as being allied with the good guys), plus he said later not to bother looking at the "Zeus" parts of his statement, as those parts were not important to his intentions.

I gave those quotes and examined them in my first post today if you'd like to read them.

[A Little Green]

Since no one has done this yet, here's the total voting tally from yesterDay.

Folwren --> Eonwe
Greenie --> Mac
Kath --> BeiGei
Lalaith --> Boro
Zil --> BeiGei 2
Nienna --> Eonwe 2
Sally --> BeiGei 3
Nog --> Nerwen
Wilwa --> BeiGei 4
Mira --> BeiGei 5
Rikae --> the phantom
Mc --> Nerwen 2
BeiGei --> Zil
Shasta --> Eonwe 3
Lottie --> Eonwe 4
Tum --> BeiGei 6
Boro --> Eonwe 5
Eonwe --> BeiGei 7
Nerwen --> Nogrod

My thoughts? Two bandwagons, neither of which was actually based on who people find wolvish. (The main argument against BG, from what I saw, was that she doesn't participate, against Eonwe that people think he is the cursed.) I don't like that at all. I mean, what's wrong with the good old practise of lynching people we think might be wolves? Another thing I'll do if I have time: look through all the voting posts and check the reasons behind the votes. Not all BG voters voted her because they didn't approve of her style, and not all Eonwe voters voted him because they thought he was Dionysus. Also, there was some fishy stuff in the non-bandwagonish votes too.


EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen and phantom

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Phantom's theory is interesting. The first thing that popped into my mind upon finding out that Boro was one of the Seers was that he dreamed Phantom was Hera. Why? I figured that "allied to the almighty Zeus" or however he phrased it would mean Hera, and he was talking about phantom at the time. (And please folks, don't club me in the head for thinking too simply. Not yet, at least.) But why would a Boroseer who has found a wolf a) make such obvious references to being a Seer and still b) leave such vague but obvious hints as to who the wolf is? Now if phantom indeed is Hera, the wolves will have spotted that immediately and done off with Boro (who they pretty much have now pinned down as the real Seer). But the thing is, Boro will have known this would happen if he makes such blatant hints and happens to be in fact the real Seer. So I'm thinking - maybe he did that on purpose, to see if the wolves attacked him - because if (or rather, when) they did, it would almost prove that they caught his hint, ergo phantom is proven to be a wolf.

I hadn't thought of that. It might explain Boro's odd phrasing, with all three "alliances" being basically the same thing.

However, against the possibility of Boro's having dreamed a wolf at all is this:

If you're the Seer, and you want to know whether you're the genuine article, you can find out by the death of someone you dreamed. Yes, there's a possibility you might still be the False Seer, right by chance, but that's very small at this stage. (It increases as the village shrinks, but that's all the more reason to get cracking). Therefore, if you dreamed a baddie, it makes sense for you to push hard for his-or-her lynching. Now, Boro made no real effort to get the phantom, or indeed anyone, lynched (his comments on Steve came very late in the Day). Therefore I should say that he probably didn't dream a wolf.

...Except that I so far haven't come up with any satisfying explanation for what Boro did yesterDay. So maybe I shouldn't be counting on him making sense, according to my lights.

EDIT:X'd since last post; added comment.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

Greenie- your theory about Boro pointing to me as Hera has two major flaws.

I'll start with the obvious one- I'm not Hera. Now, you may say he is the false Seer and spotted me as Hera, or that I am lying, but that's where flaw number two comes in- the flaw that is the most obvious and provable to the rest of the village-

Boro himself negated the idea.

Boro made a point of saying that his "allied with Zeus" comment was a mistake (he had thought of Zeus as being allied with the good guys), plus he said later not to bother looking at the "Zeus" parts of his statement, as those parts were not important to his intentions.

I gave those quotes and examined them in my first post today if you'd like to read them.

Weren't you supposed to go to bed?

I did read those quotes. But 1) I stated, quite clearly I think, that the theory was "The first thing that popped into my mind upon finding out that Boro was one of the Seers", and at that point I didn't remember those quotes (and even after reading them I wanted to share what my initial thought was) 2) I'm not entirely convinced that he couldn't have negated the idea because of some scheme or other, 3) having once in my life created a theory of some kind I wanted to share it , 4) I thought the way you nicely skipped the idea that Boro was hinting at you was fishy, and 5) I wanted to see how you react to me presenting such a theory. Enough?


EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

[the phantom]

Quickly, on the voting-

BG was too obvious a target to lynch on Day 1 to actually hold it against anyone who did it. If it weren't for the fact that I'd never played with her before I imagine I would've voted that direction too. I mean, it was Day 1 after all. You know- the day that everyone complains is random. If you have a chance to off a player that is playing in a way that you feel won't help the village, Day 1 is the perfect time for it.

That isn't to say those voters are off my list of suspicion, just that the vote itself will not tip the scales in my book.

Unless I am correct about Boro dreaming Eonwe as a WW, in which case I would say Tum's vote is the one that might stand out (but obviously we would not want to lynch her on those grounds before deciding whether or not Steve is guilty).

[Lalaith]

Is it just Europeans around right now?
Greenie, like you I was unimpressed by the BG voters - to me she was newbie-ish, not wolf-ish - but but there were seven of them and they can't all be wolves. It was an easy first-day option for innocents and wolves alike, I guess. The Eonwe bandwaggon I have more sympathy with, as there was some reasoning behind it.

My own rationale for voting Boro was that I thought that something was up with him, he was trying to attract attention to himself. For want of any better ideas about anyone else, I wanted to see if anyone would defend him. (His Hunteresque comment came after I went to bed)

Reading through the thread, I am finding Mac, Wilwa, Loslote and Nogrod (before it got too late, that is...!) looking helpful.
I am finding Keeper/Mira, Sally and autume rather strange.

In other news, I think these 7am (GMT) deadlines are going to be difficult for the handful of us on this side of the Atlantic. Most of the discussion/events of the Day seem to happen after we vote and go to bed...

[Lalaith]

Ah, Phantom is still here, sorry for implying you were European.

[A Little Green]

Just to finish commenting on stuff people said yesterDay after I went to sleep.

Originally Posted by Nog, about Nerwen

Also, if she is a wolf I doubt Rikae or/and Mac is one. And that would give us one or two people we could more or less trust, at least in the first Days.

Could you explain this? I don't follow your logic I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Lottie

I really want Tum lynched; I'm fairly sure she's a wolf.

Originally Posted by Lottie

I want Mac lynched; he seems furry.

Do you have reasons for these, or are they just gut-feelings? The following is what I found for your suspicion of Mac:

Originally Posted by Lottie

Mac - feels slightly off in all his posts, and isn't really making many helpful posts. Might vote for him.

I don't like that logic (insofar as saying someone is "feeling slightly off" includes a logic), especially as I think it appeared only after I voiced some suspicion about Mac. The same goes for Nog, actually - the way he jumped on my suspicion of Mac was fishy and quite uncharacteristical of him. (Usually he doesn't trust a word I say!) It made me think worse of him and better of Mac, actually.


EDIT: x-ed with phantom and 2x Lal

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Weren't you supposed to go to bed?

Unfortunately I screwed myself up a bit to stay up to the deadline, and I guess I did too good a job. Bleh. I'm going to regret these hours tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Greenie

I thought the way you nicely skipped the idea that Boro was hinting at you was fishy

Up until this comment you were doing just fine, but this statement makes me suspect you're pushing a bit.

How can you possibly say I SKIPPED it when I fully examined his first post and his mention of me right from the beginning? Did you read my post? I said quite clearly that it was time to examine who he dreamed of, and stated that I am the only person mentioned in his first post, and then proceeded to quote his first post as well as two other statements he made regarding that post. I did not skip his mention of me. Not by a long shot, and you implying that I did seems like you're just trying to stir something up.

The fact is, given what he said in the post and his explanations about the post later he was definitely not giving a remotely clear idea of affiliation, and so I said so and moved on.

In a later post he mentions you, saying, "Greenie looks more or less ok". That statement I actually did skip. Why aren't you accusing me of skipping that quote?

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Ah, Phantom is still here, sorry for implying you were European.

It's okay. It's slightly better than being called a Canadian.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lal

Greenie, like you I was unimpressed by the BG voters - to me she was newbie-ish, not wolf-ish - but but there were seven of them and they can't all be wolves. It was an easy first-day option for innocents and wolves alike, I guess.

I know. The thing is, such easy bandwagons are tricky just because they are an easy option for an innocent, and a nice hiding-place for a wolf. Also, they are unlikely to catch us a wolf. While I know that the chances of catching a wolf on Day 1 are very slim, I'd prefer that it was at least tried.

Originally Posted by Lal

In other news, I think these 7am (GMT) deadlines are going to be difficult for the handful of us on this side of the Atlantic. Most of the discussion/events of the Day seem to happen after we vote and go to bed...

Yeah, it's annoying. The DL is 9 am for me, which is pretty much the worst possible. Possibly, later on in the game, I'll try going to bed really early and then getting up around six to play for the last minutes (after reading a host of pages first).


EDIT: x-ed with phantom

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Ah, Phantom is still here, sorry for implying you were European.

Also, I am still here.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Just to finish commenting on stuff people said yesterDay after I went to sleep.

Could you explain this? I don't follow your logic I'm afraid.

I suppose he means that Mac was after me, and Rikae defending Mac... but that's weirdly naive reasoning, from an experienced player.