WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Is he (Zeus) allied to the village at all? Can he win without Hera?

If Hera dies, then isn't he at that point on the side of the village, as he is a non-WW who can only live if the village triumphs? And that goes for the other non-WW lovers too, yes?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

If Hera dies, then isn't he at that point on the side of the village, as he is a non-WW who can only live if the village triumphs? And that goes for the other non-WW lovers too, yes?

Well, I'd hope so, but some people will have it that a surviving Lover has automatically lost anyway. In this game, it makes a whopping big difference to the dynamics whether that's so or not.

(Maybe we need to clarify that point in the General Rules thread?)

EDIT:X'd with Kath.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, I'd hope so, but some people will have it that a surviving Lover has automatically lost anyway. In this game, it makes a whopping big difference to the dynamics whether that's so or not.

Well, if their lover dies they can no longer win as a "lover", so sure, I guess technically they could do whatever they pleased after that (use their revenge kill on themself even). But really, I don't think that's proper.

Think of it this way- Romeo and Juliet... Juliet dies, so now where are Romeo's loyalties supposing he doesn't kill himself? Does the fact that he used to be with a Capulet make him side with them forever against the family he came from? I think not. First loyalty is to Juliet, second is to his family, thus with her gone...

Agreed?

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Think of it this way- Romeo and Juliet... Juliet dies, so now where are Romeo's loyalties supposing he doesn't kill himself? Does the fact that he used to be with a Capulet make him side with them forever against the family he came from? I think not. First loyalty is to Juliet, second is to his family, thus with her gone...

Agreed?

Agreed.

Wait. I just agreed with phantom. There is clearly something topsy turvy about the world today.

I need to go ponder that fact (aka go to work).

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Think of it this way- Romeo and Juliet... Juliet dies, so now where are Romeo's loyalties supposing he doesn't kill himself? Does the fact that he used to be with a Capulet make him side with them forever against the family he came from? I think not. First loyalty is to Juliet, second is to his family, thus with her gone...

Agreed?

No, because Romeo died first, for real.

[the phantom]

I only used the names Romeo and Juliet due to the family ties and lover status, Folwren- the scenario wasn't meant to be strictly accurate to the original tale, particularly since I had the Zeus-Hera pairing in mind (that's what spurred the discussion) and as the male in that pairing is the "innocent" one the scenario I drew up made more sense with the female Juliet dying first.

[Folwren]

That's okay, Phantom, I was only teasing.

[A Little Green]

Hello folks! I think I'll start with my usual grumble about a difficult deadline - 9 AM my time, meaning that I'll have to either vote seven or eight hours early or wake up around six or seven in the morning to have time to read and vote.

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Also:
"Wolf!"

There, now my first post really is screaming it to all of you.

Originally Posted by Eonwe

I think he meant that in that case the pantom would be on the "good" side as opposed to being Hera.

Eonwe, you just made my day.

Originally Posted by Folwren

Just my two cents. Only, this is so worthless (being the first day and all) that it's practically only worth .5 cents.

It's never worthless if you're saying something on topic or voicing your opinions on others!

Originally Posted by phantom

Interesting tactic, Boro (you know the one I mean- the one that has nothing to do with me personally, but the underlying tactic). Given simple odds I figure you're bluffing, but if you aren't and things happen the way you appear to wish for them to happen (I mean you're practically begging), do you realize how many peeved players there will be?

My brain hurts.

So, just in general, then. I'm definitely not going to vote for Wilwa or Foley toDay, they both seem to speak sense and make an effort to make others do so as well. (I know making sense doesn't mean you're innocent, but at this stage it just might.) Nerwen seems innocentish too at the moment. Of the others I'm either too confused or have too little material to formulate even a vague early Day 1 opinion.

[Kath]

On the subject of what and who is innocent, from the Admin thread:

If the name I pick out is of an innocent (or Cobbler) that person will come back to life ALONG WITH Poseidon. If a Wolf or the False Seer is chosen, no one comes back.

Looks like this means that anyone who isn't a Wolf or False Seer, so that means non-wolf Lovers etc, count as innocent. So technically right now we actually do have a plethora of innocents. As Wolves and Lovers find each other those numbers diminish because they have loyalty to each other over the village while both halves of the pairing are alive. So while lynching the Lovers is sort of positive, it is still more positive for us to kill the Wolves over the Lovers, especially early while they haven't had a chance to find each other.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

If the name I pick out is of an innocent (or Cobbler) that person will come back to life ALONG WITH Poseidon. If a Wolf or the False Seer is chosen, no one comes back.

Except there's no Cobbler. Though arguably the wolves' Lovers are kind of like Cobblers.

I also agree about the Lover thing. Once the wolf lover is dead, the other is allied to the village. Their original goal can't be accomplished, and they can't win with the wolves, so their only option for any sort of victory is with the village. Same the other way around. For example Hera's main allegiance is to Zeus, and then to the wolves (just so happens that she can't win as a Lover without also winning as a wolf, so it's really the same), but if Zeus dies than her only allegiance is to the wolves.


So I have to leave in half an hour, and will be gone for about 7 hours. I won't make it to DL (since it's 2am for me (my bestie is clearly crazy) and I have to work in the morning).

x'ed with Greenie