Did Maedhros kill Laughter?

[Urwen]

Haahhaaa. If it's first-born,as Finrod says,then it can't be Lalaith,because if you have any knowledge you'll know that Turin was first-born, Lalaith second-born and Nienor third born of hin Hurin!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Haahhaaa. If it's first-born,as Finrod says,then it can't be Lalaith,because if you have any knowledge you'll know that Turin was first-born, Lalaith second-born and Nienor third born of hin Hurin!

I'd assume the text is referring to Lalaith as the first–born daughter rather than the eldest child– although its possible that at the time he wrote this Tolkien did intend her to be the eldest, as he was in the habit of reworking his "Legendarium" and shifting around the details in just this way.*

Anyway, the editor (Christopher Tolkien) seems to think it's about Lalaith:

This brief passage, scribbled on the back of an old gas bill and subsequently used to line the drawer in which my father kept his socks, contains not only an examination of the role of causality in Middle-earth but what appears to be a startling re-assessment of the part played by Húrin's daughter Urwen or Lalaith in the eventual fate of her siblings.

*Though perhaps not to the extent of making Túrin a girl...

[Nerwen]

Oh, and Eorl and Urwen– please don't get into a punch-up now.

It would make me very sad if the mods closed this thread.

[Urwen]

I was simply stating their birth order!

[Eorl of Rohan]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I was simply stating their birth order!

I'm sorry, Urwen I guess your cruel assessment of my precious lovey-dovey Feanor has made me somewhat bitter

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

*Though perhaps not to the extent of making Túrin a girl...

Whyever not? You must admit, it would make for interesting reading.

And, Urwen, in case they were a bit vague in their correction, it was the first-born daughter, not the first-born child. This makes a big difference; for instance, in some cultures the first-born son inherits even if the first-born child was a daughter. In this case, it was Morwen and Hurin's first-born daughter that crushed the butterfly, not the first-born son. Did that help? You seemed a bit confused still.

EDIT: PS, this thread is becomming rather rude. "If you have any knowledge" in particular. Quite rude, and maybe not the best move if you want us to take you seriously. Just sayin'.

[Urwen]

I'm sorry, Urwen I guess your cruel assessment of my precious lovey-dovey Feanor has made me somewhat bitter

And your treatment of Lalaith has made me angry!

[Nerwen]

Urwen, I don't think Eorl of Rohan has said anything unkind about Lalaith. And if you mean the posters on this thread in general– well, I've already explained why:

Originally Posted by Me

Since your only counter-arguments have been that a.) Maedhros killed other people, b.) Lalaith might have been awesome had she lived to grow up and c.) she was cute, I don't think you can blame the rest of us for turning it into a joke.

Speaking of which, got anything better yet?

Also, our hypothetical showdown between Lalaith and Glaurung is still in progress. When we last visited them, Lalaith had somehow obtained a flask of water from the Enchanted Stream in Mirkwood and had somehow convinced Glaurung to drink from it. It's that "somehow" aspect of the situation that we're now trying to clear up.

Well?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ok, let me explain how Lalaith can actually be considered a Warg.

There’s a record of this man called Kador. He was a border guard stationed somewhat east of Hithlum. Anyway, he had an appointment with a comrade of his named Vreth at a tavern in Dor-Lomin; they met there every few months or so to catch up with news and share some drinks. It was an all right place where not too much trouble could get started. So Kador walks in through the door, it’s busy enough this evening, and he spots Vreth standing at the bar with this guy. He’s a bit shorter than the two guards and he’s got unusually short hair.

So: Kador walks up and says “Hello there”. Vreth says “Kador! My good man! You made it. Get yourself a drink and I’ll be back in a minute or so. Those guys over there are just leaving and I owe them something, you see? Be right back. By the way, this is a mate of mine. Malder – he lives in this town.”

“All right” says Kador, and sees Vreth scurry away. “Nice to meet you” he says to Malder. “Likewise” says the stranger. So Kador orders some beer and waits for the bartender to get back, because he’s pretty thirsty. Anyway, Malder just says: “I hate geese.” Kador, thinking he misheard, asks the guy to repeat what he said, and he hears the same thing back, only this time in a more shrill, you might say worrying, tone. “I hate geese!”

Kador says aye, he doesn’t think much of them either, and glances over at where Vreth ran off to. He’s not too happy with the situation; Malder is just standing there, glowering at nothing in particular; his eyes seeming to bobble around like they're on springs.

Nothing happens for about 30 seconds, when Malder says: “I’ve always liked rolling-pins, though”. The beer arrives and Kador takes a long swig. He’s pretty angry with Vreth about now; why on Middle-earth did that ingrate allow this situation to happen? Travelling all this way to meet him and-

“The Lord of Dor-lomin is coming to town next week, some parade thing he’s organized. There’s all sorts of attractions” mused Malder. “Foreign wares, contests, animals for show!” Malder looked as cheerful as he had so far, his lips wobbling worryingly as he spoke. “They’ve got cages, you see, with special animals. I’m going to go and look at them”. He was shaking now, and Kador was getting pretty anxious, not even pretending to keep interest in Malder’s tale and openly seeking out the head of Vreth among the crowd.

“They have a goose!” Malder shouted. “A big, white goose, biggest in the land, you know?” Kador put the pieces together and trembled in fear. He would kill Vreth for this, he said only half-jokingly. “My little brother was killed by a goose! A huge goose with huge wings! He was only 6 years old! He couldn’t defend himself! A goose! I’m going to bring my rolling-pin, and smash that goose into paste! Then we'll see! We'll all see!” Kador was shouting for Vreth as he ran away from the bar, not even finishing his beer.



Right, it appears I’ve accidentally told you the story of how a couple of Hithlum border-guards named Kador and Malder met. But I’m sure I read in Tolkien’s letters that Lalaith is an acronym or something? Something to do with Wargs, anyway.

[Urwen]

Another scenario

Brandir: Um,Niniel...

Niniel: What?

Brandir:Will you marry me?

(Enter Lalaith, Turin, Dorlas and a bunch of others)

Brandir:Anyway,where was I?

(Lalaith shows the fair blue buttefly.It's alive.)

Lalaith:I haven't squashed it after all...


That's all, folks!

[Eorl of Rohan]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Haahhaaa. If it's first-born,as Finrod says,then it can't be Lalaith,because if you have any knowledge you'll know that Turin was first-born, Lalaith second-born and Nienor third born of hin Hurin!

Urwen. Ever since you answered "Feanor is empty-headed!!!!!!" to my sardonical reply on Olwe's shortcomings,
I believed that you were being purposefully childish for a joke. Now I am not so sure. Please laugh and tell us that you were having fun at our expense.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I beheld as a vision that a choice will come to a girl-child, the first-born daughter of a great warrior of the folk of Hador Lórindol and Adanel the Wise

FIRSTBORN DAUGHTER. Excuse us if we were not aware that Turin was a GIRL. And YOU accuse NERWEN of ignorance? +chokes+
.