Thorondor as a Maia???

[Erchamion]

I always had the impression that Ents, Eagles, and Dragons were lesser Ainu (or at least eala) spirits. The Ents and Eagles are described as receiving 'spirits from afar' (I think the quote was posted a couple posts ago) which implies their spirits pre-existed their bodies; which would make them ealar incidentally embodied rather than fear as the spirits of Men, Elves etc.

fea =soul of an Incarnate like the Children of Iluvatar, Dwarves; eala = spirit naturally disembodied, but can take on form by 'self-arraying' or become incarnate (Morgoth, Sauron, Istari etc.) The Ainur are all ealar, but it's never stated if all ealar are Ainur, and some texts suggest there might be at least non-Maia-non-Vala ealar (the Valaquenta says that the Aratar surpass "beyond compare all others, whether of the Valar and the Maiar, or of any other order that Iluvatar has sent into Ea.") 'Sent into Ea' implies ealar spirits since Men, Elves etc. were created within Ea.

Originally Posted by Finwe

the Valar probably let Melian "reproduce" with Thingol.

Somewhere in HOME (probably Morgoth's Ring) Tolkien says that Ainur reproducing in incarnate form acts to bind them to their bodies. It seems to be an ability they naturally possess and not something that needs a special dispensation (which Ungoliant in any case wouldn't have received).


I don't think a clear answer on the 'was Thorondor a Maia' question is really possible, since Tolkien wrote both, but to me the version where the original Eagles of Manwe were minor Maiar embodied in permanent physical forms (analogous to the Istari perhaps) seems the firmer one.

[Raynor]

I would also have problems with the origin of the quote "mightiest of the descendants of Thorondor". It might just be a conjecture by hobbits getting mesmerized by newfound information and legends from both Rivendell or Gondor. Or even more, who in Middle-Earth could claim knowledge about events of the First Age?

I think we can also dwell a lot on the meaning of this kinship between Thorondor and Gwaihir & Landroval. It might be just a kinship of legacy, affiliation to the good side, a similarity in standing among their kin, might and abilities they possess. All in all, this phrase seems like an interjection from someone whose identity completely unknown to us (Bilbo? Frodo? some scribe?) with no backing from anyone else at the time of the events - not that we can expect many, if anyone, to be able to testify on this issue, to begin with.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Raynor

who in Middle-Earth could claim knowledge about events of the First Age?

Cirdan. But otherwise, I agree that the First Age was probably shrouded in history for most people by the time of the War of the Ring.