WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Nienna]

Ok kids we need to find some new suspects because I'm not a wolf and I'm pretty sure Sally isn't a wolf... and since I think it is safe to assume for the moment that Lottie isn't a wolf... new suspects need to be brought forward. I'd also appreciate some reasoning behind why people seem to find me very suspicious and willing to kill just to see if I'm evil. *Waits patiently to be analyzed*

I'd love to hear more from Lommy. I do not agree with Mac that her two decisive votes for Mnemo make her look super innocent. Her behavior has still been a bit strange and her votes could easily have been wolf-on-wolf.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nienna

Ok kids we need to find some new suspects because I'm not a wolf and I'm pretty sure Sally isn't a wolf... and since I think it is safe to assume for the moment that Lottie isn't a wolf... new suspects need to be brought forward.

Not again...

For a new suspect: How about Bes? The more I look at him, the more uneasy I get, but I don't have time to analyze him right now. I've only got fifteen minutes or so before I've got to go...

[Loslote]

Oh, well. Looking at Bes:

Post 1: IC banter, comments on the Boro issue, suggests no one votes Day 1.

Post 2: Backs off when Roa and Mnemo veto the 'no voting' suggestion.

Post 3: IC banter, says he's going to sleep.

Post 4: Says he's reading up and waiting for Legate to answer a question on the rules.

Post 5: Backpedals on the Boro issue; says he doesn't know what to think about Nog and Roa; votes Mac because Inzil's arguments looked best.

Post 6: Apologizes for his hasty Mac vote earlier; promises to be more careful.

Post 7: Summarizes Mac's posts; says Pitchie looked just as suspicious

Post 8: Says he won't be voting; promises to post more on Day 3 if he's still here.

He hasn't come on again, but when you look at him, he never really says anything...might just be newbieness, might be wolfishness. As he's my top suspect,

++Bes

So sorry if you're innocent...

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I have the impression Lottie's been getting on Brinn's nerves ever since their first game together (when innocent Lottie tried to make a case against innocent Brinn based on some blatant word-twisting). Also, Brinn's vote for Lottie was the first at a time when there were plenty other contenders for the noose.

Heh, I didn't even remember that until you mentioned it...and even then it's still blurry. But really, I don't have any harsh feelings against Loslote; I simply found her actions yesterDay to be suspicious.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Green: probably innocent, voted Mnemo first.

Eomer: definitely innocent, put Mnemo in lead.

Lommy: definitely innocent, put Mnemo onto 3 votes.

Mac: possibly guilty, said he'd prefer Inzi over Mnemo a lot. Maybe too strong and incriminating for a wolf? Also, highly suspicious of Mnemo next day. PROBABLY INNOCENT.

Shasta: guilty? tried to save Mnemo

Nienna: guilty? ditto

Inzi: innocent, sacrificed to save Mnemo on first day and Mnemo also suspected him the day after, after he already had a lot of votes.

Nerwen: probably innocent, strongly against Mnemo on second day.

Pitch: innocent? voted for by Mnemo at start of day two.

Wilwa: guilty? when votes are 1 each for lots of people, wilwa defends Mnemo.

Nogrod: innocent? seems critical of Mnemo

Sally: guilty? also doesn't want to vote Mnemo

Nienna tried to save Mnemo again by killing Loslote. GUILTY

So apparently Eomer has come to the conclusion that everyone who voted Mnemo is innocent and those who tried to save her are probably guilty. That is a horrible assumption to make. While those who weren't convinced of Mnemo's guilt may look more suspicious, that doesn't necessarily mean they are. And with seven votes for Mnemo, I think it could be very likely that at least one is wolf-on-wolf. There are players among the Mnemo voters who are risk-takers and would probably be perfectly okay with sacrificing a wolf to make them look better.

Btw, I'm slightly concerned about this jump on Nienna. Yes, she tried to save Mnemo twice, but that doesn't make her automatically guilty. I've seen plenty of innocents get lynched in the past for this reason and because of that, the wolves could easily set Nienna up to be toDay's lynch, so let's not jump to conclusions. Of course now that I've said this, she'll probably turn out to be a wolf after all. But unless she does something majorly suspicious toDay, I doubt I'll vote her.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Don't lynch me toDay, because I am the Secret Role. I am a limited seer. I have only one dream, on Night Four - aka, toNight.

Hmm...I'm not convinced. The problem with the secret role is that it's so much easier for a baddie to get away with a fake reveal since we don't know what the role is. One dream for the entire game? A limited seer is certainly possible, though I honestly expected more from a secret role.

While I'm still not sure whether to believe Loslote's claim, I will give her the benefit of the doubt for toDay and see what dream she comes up with toMorrow. It'd be pretty silly to lynch her now with the chance that she is telling the truth. I wonder if there'll be a counter reveal...

[Bes]

I can't fault Lottie's reasons for suspecting me, she makes valid points. I mean, I can sit here and explain why I haven't been active all day, but you guys don't know me to be sure whether or not I'm being sincere (By the by, called in to work today unexpectedly. I was expecting to be available to play from 4PM to 8PM EST, but it didn't happen that way. One of the other employees sprung a doctor's appointment on the supervisor as a surprise. )

I am surprised by her reveal, though. I mean, very surprised. Bear with me: If she's telling the truth, then she's put herself in a perfect position to get night killed, and (if I understand how it works properly) be prevented from ever revealing her dream. Waiting until tomorrow to reveal and telling everyone what she dreamed would have easily prevented that, and I don't think the suspicion against her is sufficient at the moment for lynching to be a big concern for her. Which makes me think that this is a false reveal by a nervous wolf, following up an easy vote on someone that's been stumbling over his own feet through the game so far.

I dunno, other people's thoughts? Also, I'm a slow typist, so I expect to cross with a few people.

Edit: Really? Huh, no I didn't. But I am reminded: Brinn is convinced by this reveal awfully quickly...

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Bes

I am surprised by her reveal, though. I mean, very surprised. Bear with me: If she's telling the truth, then she's put herself in a perfect position to get night killed, and (if I understand how it works properly) be prevented from ever revealing her dream.

Well, so long as the ranger is still alive by toNight, they can protect her. I too thought it odd that she would reveal now considering she's not even a serious lynch candidate at the moment. But if she is telling the truth and considering it doesn't look like she'll be back before deadline, she could've just panicked.

Originally Posted by Bes

But I am reminded: Brinn is convinced by this reveal awfully quickly...

Wait, what? I just said I'm NOT convinced of her reveal. But still, even if there is a counter reveal, I'll still give her the benefit of the doubt for toDay because I don't want to risk the chance that she is what she says she is and lose a possible dream. If this is a false reveal, we will figure it out eventually; we always do.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nienna

Ok kids we need to find some new suspects because I'm not a wolf and I'm pretty sure Sally isn't a wolf... and since I think it is safe to assume for the moment that Lottie isn't a wolf... new suspects need to be brought forward. I'd also appreciate some reasoning behind why people seem to find me very suspicious and willing to kill just to see if I'm evil. *Waits patiently to be analyzed*

Well now you can't expect us to just sit here and be hunky-dory about those who defended Mnemo and voted in an attempt to save her. You are under suspicion for strong and understandable reasons.

However, as I said before, I think votes can be craftily manipulated by the wolves. And since Mnemo had 3-votes on Day 1 I'm putting more stock into the wolf-on-wolf than Eomer is. That still doesn't change the fact that several people defended her, and several more didn't have much to say about her, so Eomer is being 100% understandable in his focus on those who defended Mnemo.

Taking other stuff into consideration, aside from the voting, I think you look pretty good Nienna. Your consistant efforts against Lommy make you look more innocent than others who defended Mnemo. Lommy is a tough lynch, and I would think any wolves who were trying some sort of effort to save Mnemo would try to turn the focus on someone who was under more suspicion/an easier lynch.

I will just tell you though, I have no idea what you're seeing that is suspicious with Lommy. I may be putting too much stock in judging people based on feelings and words, but Lommy said she was "detached." A wolf doesn't say that, plain and simple. A wolf is excited to be a wolf, they may not be a loud/active player, but there still is a certain level of excitement, and involvement, about having the role.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

So apparently Eomer has come to the conclusion that everyone who voted Mnemo is innocent and those who tried to save her are probably guilty. That is a horrible assumption to make. While those who weren't convinced of Mnemo's guilt may look more suspicious, that doesn't necessarily mean they are. And with seven votes for Mnemo, I think it could be very likely that at least one is wolf-on-wolf. There are players among the Mnemo voters who are risk-takers and would probably be perfectly okay with sacrificing a wolf to make them look better.

Eomer is pretty much saying that, but that's still an exaggeration. It's like when people thought I was saying we should lynch all the reasonable players. Eomer isn't saying lynch everyone who defended/voted to save Mnemo, because there just aren't that many wolves. But he is rightfully pointing attention to the sizeable group of people who did something to defend Mnemo. Anyone in that group could be a wolf and it's only right they all should come under suspicion for it.

Edit: crossed with Brinn

[Bes]

Brinn: That's what I get for speed reading. Appologies. Also, I need to get to bed. See you all tomorrow. I'd say I'd get more done, but honestly that seems to be the kiss of death for my productivity so far. We'll see. :-/

[Nerwen]

Hi all. I've wasted an hour or more going through Mnemo's posts, but I've decided there's no point posting my full analysis, because it came up with pretty much the same result as Wilwa's. Which is to say that she left no clear leads to anyone; might have a connection with Sally because of all their bantering (but might also have been trying to make it look that way); and that her repeated statements about feeling sure that both Nogrod and Roa were innocent might point at Nogrod. Or not; it could have been meant to make herself look good if either were lynched and proven innocent. I also agree that her vote for Pitchwife is unlikely to have been wolf-on-wolf, unless she assumed no-one would follow it.

This is what perplexes me; she was careless enough to get herself lynched yesterDay with her downright absurd "cases" ("Zil plays like me! That makes him a wolf!"), yet careful enough to leave no real trails. Interesting.

Her comments on Lottie are a case in point; in the same post that she votes Pitch she describes Lottie as "wolvish". Now, is she fake-suspecting a packmate (while voting someone else) or trying to keep an innocent in the running? Not much help in evaluating Lottie's claim, anyway.

EDIT:fixed formatting.

[Boromir88]

Lottie's reveal makes perfect sense. If she only gets one dream, her task was to stay alive to get it, and with the Ranger's help, she'll get it.

I see no reason to doubt it. The wolves just lost one yesterday, why throw another one out into the water? We'll find out if she's telling the truth or not within a few days.

I do think with what happened yesterday, Lottie wasn't going to be under suspicion like she was yesterday, but if she's gone for the rest of the day I certainly understand her reason to not want to risk it.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Boro

Eomer isn't saying lynch everyone who defended/voted to save Mnemo, because there just aren't that many wolves. But he is rightfully pointing attention to the sizeable group of people who did something to defend Mnemo. Anyone in that group could be a wolf and it's only right they all should come under suspicion for it.

Well, I didn't say I thought Eomer wanted to lynch everyone who defended Mnemo, just that he labeled them all as suspicious. But I was more concerned about him labeling everyone who voted Mnemo as most likely innocent. I agree that those who defended Mnemo should be looked at because there's a good chance one is a wolf, but I also think it's just as likely that there's one wolf among the group that voted Mnemo.

[Boromir88]

One quick thing before...

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Well, I didn't say I thought Eomer wanted to lynch everyone who defended Mnemo, just that he labeled them all as suspicious. But I was more concerned about him labeling everyone who voted Mnemo as most likely innocent. I agree that those who defended Mnemo should be looked at because there's a good chance one is a wolf, but I also think it's just as likely that there's one wolf among the group that voted Mnemo.

Fair enough, and by fair enough, I mean I concede that you weren't exaggerating anything. I tend to think Eomer stays much more focused and straight to the point, which is why I'm very pleased to see this from him. Of course there are weaknesses to going with the black and white approach, but there are also several strengths. For one, you don't drive yourself crazy trying to endlessly spin your head in circles of all the possibities (some reasonable possiblities, others plain outrageous ).

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Read and caught up (mostly - will need to probably re-read tomorrow), but as it's nearly three in the morning, I should get to bed.

What I can say is this - Brinniel could be a wolf (not discounting her D1 connection to Nerwen) trying to save a Niennawolf with that next-to-most-recent post of hers. She brings up valid points, but it's almost with a "I'm not sure it's a good idea, but you guys do what you wanna do" attitude.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, Brinn, Werewolf can be a simple game. I have reasons for finding the Mnemo voters probably innocent, for now at least. After a few days we can examine more theories but for now, when we still have so many people alive in this expedition, I'm not going to complicate things.

Aye, they could have voted wolf-on-wolf, but I won't bother seriously entertaining that possibility - because I have four other villagers in my sight who are, to my mind, obviously more suspicious.

Or should I say susp-ice-ous?

Yes, yes I should.

[Boromir88]

Greenie:

Day 1-
#109 agrees with Mnemo that everyone should take a deep breath
#118 wary of Mnemo for popping in being active, but not being very confrontational
#124 will vote for Nog or Mnemo
#132 votes Mnemo (1/3)
Day 2-
#272 explains vote for Mnemo instead of Nog
#324 agrees with Nerwen that Mnemo's had a change in behavior from Day 1 to Day 2. Is confused by it, but still suspicious
#357 will probably vote for Mnemo
#385 votes Mnemo (3/7 and breaks 3-way tie)

All I can say is if Greenie's a wolf, this is an absolutely bravura performance and you would deserve to win. It's tempting to think conspiratorily and say "what a perfectly placed Day 2 vote if Greenie's a wolf, because it breaks the 3-way tie," but all your other posts are consistant and match up.

Plus Greenie and Nerwen point out Mnemo's change in behavior from Day 1 to Day 2. I have no reservations about assuming Greenie is innocent.

Wilwa

Day 2-
#239 good with Nerwen and Mnemo
#346

Mnemo is acting a bit different then yesterday, but I still don't really feel suspicious of her.

Acknowledges Nerwen's point of Mnemo's behavior change, but if that isn't trying to deflect suspicion away from it I don't know what is.
#363

uhmm....I'm definitely gonna vote for someone on this list, cause there's no way I'm bringing a number 8 into the mix. Lommy hasn't stood out to me, Boro makes me uneasy so maybe him, Pitch too though after a quick skim through he was iffy too, Mnemo I'm fairly ok with, Lottie haven't really payed attention too, Zil I don't even know why people are suspicious of him, and Nerwen I'm good with.

Within 40 minutes Mnemo changes from "don't really feel suspicious of her," to "fairly ok with."
#381 votes Boro (ties me with Mnemo), as she previously stated

Not only does wilwa look bad based on her defense of Mnemo, but her suspicions against me are flat out weak. I expect some unfamiliar players to get adjusted to my style, like trom and Bes, but wilwa should be much more familiar with me.

Ya, ya, I know we can all be different, and change and all that jazz, but just look at her reason for voting me. All she says about me several times is I make her uneasy" and then she points out a quote saying my last line looked strange. Chalk-full of vague, negatively connotated words that really don't point to someone being a wolf at all, but everyone thinks "strange" and "odd" = suspicious

Look at #363 too when she's trying to figure out who to vote, Mnemo's got 2 and everyone else has 1. She doesn't want to add another name, so she looks at everyone with votes. Trying to figure out who would be a good one to tie Mnemo with, but by the time you go and vote you realize you've only said I'm making you "uneasy?" Besides, throwing a random "maybe Pitch" in there? I have no reservations about calling wilwa a wolf.

With that, nap time, I'll finish on everyone else tomorrow. Nog, good to see me return to true form?

Edit: crossed with Nerwen

[Nogrod]

Some random notes while reading myself up to date...

Mac, do you see a pattern: almost anyone who votes you or suspects you is suspicious to you? You should know better...

Even if it is possible Nienna and Lottie are both innocents (or that Lottie has that secret role) I still don't like what they do. First Nienna makes a careful whitewashing of Lottie - I mean not open or straightforward but kind of discreet one and calling for new suspects immediately after the "reveal", then Lottie says this...

Originally Posted by Lottie

Nienna seems good. She's one of the ones I feel most confident about...not that that's very confident...

I just feel bad about this.

And Lottie's list of suspiciouns and trust seems to basically run counter to mine so I naturally look at her with suspicious mind... Not to say that her vote doesn't look very good either. She appears to pull Bes out from a hat and makes a hasty last fifteen minute analysis. Not good.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Btw, I'm slightly concerned about this jump on Nienna. Yes, she tried to save Mnemo twice, but that doesn't make her automatically guilty. I've seen plenty of innocents get lynched in the past for this reason and because of that, the wolves could easily set Nienna up to be toDay's lynch, so let's not jump to conclusions.

How do the wolves set up her if she herself makes the votes? Or how do they do that because "plenty of innocents have been lynched that way"?

I don't think Nienna is "automatically guilty" or assume that those voting for Mnemo are obviously innocent. And I'm not sure anyone does that (I see Eomer cleared that up already...). So why do you Brinn wish to make it look like people thought like that?

Hmm...I'm not convinced. The problem with the secret role is that it's so much easier for a baddie to get away with a fake reveal since we don't know what the role is. One dream for the entire game? A limited seer is certainly possible, though I honestly expected more from a secret role.

Exactly my thoughts as well. And the problem is we have no way of confirming or disproving whatever she says toMorrow leaving us with the worst scenario two wolves as "revealed innocents" (herself and whoever she reveals) - and by drawing the ranger to protect her the next Night she'd give the wolves a free kill the next Night... well that is if she is a wolf.

It might be something clever wolves could have planned last Night even though I'm the first one to take that kind of rthings with a pinch of salt: we oftentimes imagine wolves making much grander plans they actually do. But anyway.

While I'm still not sure whether to believe Loslote's claim, I will give her the benefit of the doubt for toDay and see what dream she comes up with toMorrow. It'd be pretty silly to lynch her now with the chance that she is telling the truth. I wonder if there'll be a counter reveal...

Without a counter-reveal I think we have no other chance... But the problem is that if the other role is cobbler-like or in anyway evil-leaning there will be none - and if it is a strong role for good there will be none either...

I'm not suggesting lynching Lottie toDay unless some serious counter-reveals emerge, but I'm really quite confused and untrusting of her right now.

Nooo, there are so long new ones... just a moment.

[Boromir88]

After I'm done with this I'm really going to have to whip you two (sally and Nog) into shape.

What are you trying to prove contesting her reveal? If you're the Limitted seer secret-role than come out with it already, but if you aren't you're not proving anything by going through post-by-post of hers and saying that before the reveal she wasn't making sense to you, therefor you doubt believing her.

Here's the deal.

1. The wolves lost one of their own 1st-lynch. If you think they're going to throw another out there the next day, that's real brass.

2. She disclosed details about the role. When wolves make a fake reveal how much detail do you think they want to get into? That's rhetorical, but I'll say it anyway, as little as possible. She said, I'm a limitted seer, I get one dream on Night-4. That kind of specifics about the role proves (at least to me) she's not a wolf, because when making fake reveals wolves like to stay away from specifics, since they're full of crap.

3. She gets her dream, if she says she's got a wolf, we lynch. That person is a wolf, we're all good. If not we lynch Lottie next day. If she reveals an innocent and Lottie (or the "known" innocent) doesn't get killed soon we lynch her.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Like I said, perhaps based on what happened yesterday she may not have been a major suspect today. However, the fact is she was yesterday, we already know she can't be on that often and she doesn't want to risk it...and if she's a special role that has 1-dream, I'm glad she isn't risking it, especially with the way you two are acting about it.

sally, I think you grossly exaggerate some of your analysis of her too, which I will get to eventually, but I'm returning back to the more useful thing I was doing.

[satansaloser2005]

Boro, you have to keep in mind that this is exactly what wolves do; they lie. And if they are in a "cri-ice-is" as Mister Punny would say, they'll take advantage of any....well, advantage. If there's a secret role they can make up as much as they like and no one (except for the secret role, and who believes second reveals most of the time anyway?) could contest them.

And besides, keep this in mind. Who's to say that the secret role isn't a modified wolf? (Think of Shasta's game where there was a seer wolf, etc.) Lottie could be telling the truth and still be evil.

Speaking of whipping into shape, I'm surprised you didn't consider that.


ETA: x'd with Nerwen

[satansaloser2005]

By the way, I'll be busy most/all of the morning so I'll be only commenting in snippets if at all; apologies in advance. I'll be able to vote as far as I know, but this is just an FYI in case I'm kept away from my computer for a while.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

And besides, keep this in mind. Who's to say that the secret role isn't a modified wolf? (Think of Shasta's game where there was a seer wolf, etc.) Lottie could be telling the truth and still be evil.

Speaking of whipping into shape, I'm surprised you didn't consider that.

Or maybe it's because I have you pegged as some type of modified cobbler role? One that gets to pick a name every so often to send to the wolves? I'll explain that out-lost-in-the-tundra theory in a bit, because you should know I have your posting interactions with Mnemo down, I just need to finish the rest.

But I will entertain your what-if she's a wolf-seer. If she's wolf-seer it would be totally idiotic to throw herself out there like she did. If she's revealing innocents and not dead after 2 days (as in killed by the wolves dead) then she would be lynched.

There is a fine line between stating your doubts about any reveal, and why, and doing a post-by-post analysis to try and discredit her reveal based on you don't like how she's been playing, or she isn't making sense in her reasons/votes.

[Boromir88]

Oh I kind of forgot the other thing to blow the wolf-seer theory out of the water. There's stated 4 wolves + 2 secret roles. A wolf-seer would still be considered a wolf, thus not one of the secret roles.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If she reveals an innocent and Lottie (or the "known" innocent) doesn't get killed soon we lynch her.

When will it be the right Day for that?

Anyway, as I said, I'm not against letting her live and dream. I was just voicing my suspicion on her and around her.

Originally Posted by Boro

There's stated 4 wolves + 2 secret roles.

Two? For a moment I thought it was my turn to show my ignorance... But then I checked it...

Originally Posted by Rules

1 secret role – will not be revealed on the admin thread and only the chosen player will know about it.

What are you up to Boro?

On another issue...

Okay, we're preparing a small birthday party here (me and Greenie who just came over) and Lommy & Legate will come in a few hours so all three of us will not play too actively during the coming hours. But heh, we have Legate here so maybe we just prevent him from ending the Day so that we can postpone the DL?

[wilwarin538]

Good catch Nog. And I say tie Legate up in a closet to give us more time.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

When will it be the right Day for that?

Anyway, as I said, I'm not against letting her live and dream. I was just voicing my suspicion on her and around her.

I noticed you've completely not responded to the rest of the post, but chose only to point out one of the few assumptions I'm making about the reveal.

I was mostly referring to sally, the reason I threw you in there because you came right after (and I crossed with wilwa who of course expressed doubts about it all ). As I said though, there is a difference between stating doubt about someone's reveal and going through great lengths to try to discredit it based on shoddy reasons.

If someone says I'm the secret role, this is what it is, and these are the details, I can still understand doubting it, but to make an exaggerated effort to try to discredit the person is not only taking it too far, but just useless. The way I see it, we have another weapon that's being offered and we'd be idiots to not take the chance.

Doub it all you want, it makes no difference to me, but if someone says "I can get a dream tonight, don't kill me," I'm going to listen. This might be a terrible example to use, but if I was in Lottie's shoes based on the previous day and I said it (while disclosing specific details), I'm sure I'd have my doubters, but I will bet my apartment building no one would go through such a large extent to discredit me.

Two? For a moment I thought it was my turn to show my ignorance... But then I checked it...

What are you up to Boro?

Nothing sinister, had a Roa-moment it appears. I could have sworn Day 1 there were people talking about 2 secret roles. Well now that changes my sally-analysis don't it.

[Pitchwife]

Back and reading.

[Nerwen]

Well, then, I can't leave this any later– for once it's hard to decide not because no-one looks really suspicious but because so many people do.

++Nienna

Voting record and general feeling of not-rightness. Sorry, but I'm too tired to put that any better.

Good night and good luck.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Shasta

What I can say is this - Brinniel could be a wolf (not discounting her D1 connection to Nerwen) trying to save a Niennawolf with that next-to-most-recent post of hers. She brings up valid points, but it's almost with a "I'm not sure it's a good idea, but you guys do what you wanna do" attitude.

If I were a wolf with Nienna, chances are I'd be throwing her under the bus rather than saving her. Because with her vote record, she'd probably deserve it. Sorry Nienna.

In the past, I've had no problems with lynching a fellow wolf if I thought that was necessary to make myself look better and/or they were drawing enough attention to themselves anyway. Which is probably why I'm wary of the Mnemo voters. I know I'm not the only player here that doesn't mind throwing a fellow wolf under the bus.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Well, Brinn, Werewolf can be a simple game. I have reasons for finding the Mnemo voters probably innocent, for now at least. After a few days we can examine more theories but for now, when we still have so many people alive in this expedition, I'm not going to complicate things.

We all have different ways in how we play, so I accept that. I understand why you'd find those who voted to save Mnemo and I don't see leaving the Mnemo voters alone for toDay as a problem...I just don't want to see them fall under the radar or continue to be disregarded later on, because if we did that, we could easily be handing the victory to the wolves.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

How do the wolves set up her if she herself makes the votes? Or how do they do that because "plenty of innocents have been lynched that way"?

I don't think Nienna is "automatically guilty" or assume that those voting for Mnemo are obviously innocent. And I'm not sure anyone does that (I see Eomer cleared that up already...). So why do you Brinn wish to make it look like people thought like that?

Yes, Nienna's votes are her own errors, but if she's innocent, I could easily imagine the wolves at Night saying something like, "Pity we lost Mnemo, but look at Nienna's vote record; she could easily be set up for toMorrow's lynch, and with little help from us." The wolves don't need to create this whole bandwagon to get her lynched; sometimes all they need to do is give a gentle nudge and the village will take the bait.

I'm not trying to make people look like they're assuming one way or the other, but I did notice earlier in the Day that most players seemed to have Nienna at the top of their suspicion list, which is an indication of how toDay's voting might sway. And I'm concerned people will be too quick to jump on the most obviously suspicious person since more often than not they turn out innocent. I get the feeling that Nienna may be a mislead innocent, though I can't say I'm entirely confident about that since she has as a wolf managed to get away with some very suspicious stuff in the past. I don't care to see her lynched toDay, but would rather like to keep an eye on her.

Originally Posted by Sally

And besides, keep this in mind. Who's to say that the secret role isn't a modified wolf?

I doubt that the role is a modified wolf since I agree with Boro that it wouldn't be a separate role, but an extension of a current wolf role. But it's possible the secret role is a cobbler. Or perhaps a cursed...though I think that's less likely.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

When will it be the right Day for that?

Anyway, as I said, I'm not against letting her live and dream. I was just voicing my suspicion on her and around her.

I don't what to think about Lottie. As Boro said, it would be pretty rash of the wolves to pull a false reveal at this point. However, if Lottie's a wolf it would be her first time, and it's possible she panicked or something. She's done a number of things that don't look too innocent... but then it would be her first time as a gifted too, I think... arrrgh...

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Nothing sinister, had a Roa-moment it appears. I could have sworn Day 1 there were people talking about 2 secret roles. Well now that changes my sally-analysis don't it.

And there I was waiting for you to reveal as... the extra secret role. More secret than secret!