Saruman's death

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Ghazi

This pretty much sums up how I have always interpreted the fate of both Saruman and Sauron. I have also assumed that neither would be able to affect their environment in anyway but I wonder if it would be possible for them to inhabit another body or dominate other spirits such as the nazgul, wights or houseless elves. I also wonder what would happen if they ever ran into one another.

Yes, I have too much time on my hands at the moment.

It's probably a matter of personal belief, but I actually believe (from what's been said in the books and also what I "feel right") that indeed as you say in the beginning, that they would not be able to affect their environment in any way at all. I think they could be "visible" to some over-sensitive people, let's say, if somebody was constantly troubled by nightmares, he could from time to time catch a glimpse of "real" Sauron who managed to get stuck around his house for some longer time, but that's about it. I don't believe that they would be capable even of any form of possession. Somebody could see a weak "echo" of them in their dreams or something, if they tried really hard to catch his attention and if the person was sensitive enough, but still it would be just weak and shaded pale vision, nothing more. Something like the way Legolas perceived the Dead Men of Dunharrow, "weak and fragile", merely "shadows of Men", with the difference that Saruman and Sauron would be even far less than the Dead Men of Dunharrow ever were. Wisp and smoke, nothing more.

And as for what would have happened if they ran into one another, I guess Saruman at least would not have any wish for that encounter, in the "best" case, they could "gnaw each other with words", but I believe neither would be able to do anything to the other anyway (they are really just wisp and smoke), and anyway I doubt either would relish in such an encounter, for fear of being mocked by the other now in their utterly powerless state, and the same thing would probably happen if they encountered a lost fea of a dead Elf or something. I think seeing a totally powerless Dark Lord would be quite satisfactory for his former victims. I immediately thought of the words chanted by the dead in Isaiah 14: "...Underworld is moved to meet thee at thy coming: it stirred up the dead for thee... All they shall speak and say unto thee: Art thou also become weak as we? Art thou become like us? ...And they shall look upon thee and wonder: Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms...?"