WW LX - Mortal Men, doomed to die

[Eönwë]

Ok, though, before I do, some things people have said which I would just like to comment on...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I don't think Lhuna innocent. As an innocent myself I can't afford thinking someone innocent without a very good cause. So why do you try to make the impression I think Lhuna innocent? Look at my posts backwards and you see I suspect her every noew and then.

Ok, this just seems a little strange to me... if he wasn't the seer (well, as far as we know), I would definately be going after him. Seems like a slip. Why would he be suspecting Lhuna every now and then? Like he's trying to distance himself from her. Nogrod being the relentless WW player that he is would either mention her as seeming more innocent, or would go after her, at least a little bit (because she wasn't his main target).


Also, the logic here seems a little bit strange:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now, the talk has been that maybe she's the wraith sacrifice, and they're hoping she'll get lynched and thus buy Sally some credibility. That would rely on the wraiths killing Nogrod toNight... and on Nogrod going along with Sally toDay. (And also requires the third step of Sally being able to convince us ToMorrow that she really was just an ordo trying to save the Seer.)

What would a wraith-Sally have to gain from just being looked upon as a a "lucky innocent", who just happened to be right about Lhuna? It isn't as much of a safeguard from lynching as the seer (and as Nogrod would be a proven seer in your scenario). Also it would lead her actions to be scrutinised much more by everyone else- look what happpens in the games where an innocent Shasta is right about the wolves.
Also, very risky, but then again, Sally is a risky player.


How about a crazy theory:
Nogrod, Nerwen (a "proven" innocent) and Sally/Shasta are all wolves and are just trying to confuse us. Nogrod puts Wilwa in the "proven innocent" category to gain the support of a true innocent (or possibly even a gifted- they're all still alive I believe).

Not very likely, but it's best to think of every option. If it is true, they're amazing.

I also don't like the fact that everyone seems to be agreeing with everyone, even though the general idea is shifting throughout the Day. Something doesn't seem right there.


Now for that reread...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

What would a wraith-Sally have to gain from just being looked upon as a a "lucky innocent", who just happened to be right about Lhuna? It isn't as much of a safeguard from lynching as the seer (and as Nogrod would be a proven seer in your scenario). Also it would lead her actions to be scrutinised much more by everyone else- look what happpens in the games where an innocent Shasta is right about the wolves.

If anyone wants to go back and read that post (#336) they will see that I'm looking at different scenarios and raising points against each one.

My next line was, "Not a plan I'd have cared to try myself".

Your quoting me out of context in order to criticise my "strange logic" does not make me think well of you, Eönwë.

Not at all well of you.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

If anyone wants to go back and read that post (#336) they will see that I'm looking at different scenarios and raising points against each one.

My next line was, "Not a plan I'd have cared to try myself".
Your quoting me out of context in order to criticise my "strange logic" does not make me think well of you, Eönwë.

Not at all well of you.

The "Not a plan I'd have cared to try myself", I took to mean that it would be hard to do, as opposed to anything else.

What I said is that it wouldn't be beneficial.

Just clarifying.

edit: fixed italic stuff

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

The "Not a plan I'd have cared to try myself", I took to mean that it would be hard to do, as opposed to anything else.

What I said is that it wouldn't be beneficial.

Just clarifying.

What's the difference? I was looking at the already-proposed wraith-on-wraith theory (I didn't come up with it) and explaining what I thought was wrong with it.

Considering that your out-of-context quoting leads up to your "crazy theory" that Nogrod and I are wolves together... I'm still not thinking well of you.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

What's the difference? I was looking at the already-proposed wraith-on-wraith theory (I didn't come up with it) and explaining what I thought was wrong with it.

Considering that your out-of-context quoting leads up to your "crazy theory" that Nogrod and I are wolves together... I'm still not thinking well of you.

That was just what was building up in my head at the time- and not very plausible, as I said in my post. It wasn't meant to be connected.

Anyway, part of the point of WW is to come up with theories... I was just putting it out there.

[Lhunardawen]

Of all the times that I will have practically no time to post... I'm really sorry. I have to make this short and sweet. Well, maybe not sweet.

Nice try, sally. That was a bold move, because you had to know that it'll be almost impossible to let this fly. But it was ingenious of you, really, to aim to take an innocent down with you, so you wraiths can stand a slightly better chance in the numbers game in the end.

My guess is that sally is a sort of sacrificial wraith thrown out to deflect attention from at least one of her last two fellow wraiths and give them a better chance of winning the game for their side. She could have been bold enough to include wraith-Brinn in her list of innocents, and wraith-Eonwe or wraith-Rune could be slipping under our radars while we argue. I do not know, and unfortunately I do not have the time to further explore possibilities toDay.

At least one thing we know for sure is that we've caught a wraith in sally.

++satansaloser2005

[wilwarin538]

One thought before my list. So if we consider ours odds right now, there are 3 wraiths among 7 possible people to lynch (I'm not counting myself, Nerwen and Nogrod, since I'd be surprised if anyone voted for us). So that is almost a 50/50 chance of lynching a wraith. Pretty good I have to say.

So my thoughts on everyone, now this is looking back from pages 7-9, cause I don't want to read more then that right now, especially since I know I'm gonna vote Sally. I just want everyone to know my thoughts regarding everyone.

Nienna: Not too much, just pops in here and there...a possible baddie I suppose, but for some reason I can't see it...

Nogrod: seer

Shasta: Interesting, I'm enjoying his back and forth with Nerwen....I don't agree with him, but I can tell that he's just trying to consider all possibilities. So I don't really suspect him, I don't think....

Nerwen: innocent and ordinary, just like me

Rune: Seems just as confused as me. I don't know.

Lhuna: I still don't understand, now I'm seeing that yesterDay people were confused over why she hadn't been Night killed, I definitely missed something in here.

Sally: K, one thing I noticed in my re-reading, when Nogrod revealed my innocence she was all like "I'm of much the same opinion", are you claiming you "dreamt" me aswell?? Or you're just agreeing with him....I don't know. I really don't believe her, at all. So I'll be voting her, most probably.

Eönwë: Not liking, really more gut then anything....I'm actually really not trusting anyone.

Brinniel: Makes sense, I want to trust her, and because of that I feel like I shouldn't....I'm getting so paranoid. I honestly don't know about her...

Other thoughts.

Eonwe said this:

Nogrod puts Wilwa in the "proven innocent" category to gain the support of a true innocent (or possibly even a gifted- they're all still alive I believe).

If I was a gifted then Nog would just say I was innocent, but since he said ord then that means he knows I'm not gifted. I think a wraith pretending to be a seer wouldn't say "this person is an ord", cause they risk the chance that that person is actually a gifted (and if a gifted is being called an ord then they know the seer reveal is faked), they would say "this person is innocent", cause anyone who isn't one of their mates is an innocent, so there's no chance of being wrong. Does that make sense?? Basically it's that logic that is leading me to trust Nog, even if it doesn't seem completely logical.

That's all for now...gonna go eat me some Greek pizza, then I'll be back.

X'posted with Eonwe and Rune.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Lhuna: I still don't understand, now I'm seeing that yesterDay people were confused over why she hadn't been Night killed, I definitely missed something in here.

Because she went after Legate so strongly. If it's not wolf-on-wolf, it would have made her look very Seerish to the baddies... so it's strange they didn't kill her. (But then, Nogrod is also still alive...)

Possibly, as I suggested, they were afraid she was really the Hunter, or else that she was Ranger-protected.

EDIT: X'd with Eönwë.

[Nerwen]

Anyway. I have to go now, so–

++Sally.

Good night.

[Nerwen]

Oh, and don't lynch Lhuna toDay. Yes, wraith-on-wraith is a possibility– but it could just as easily be a plot to get an innocent killed.

Sally is a much better risk– plus, her death gives us more information than anyone else's.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

OK I chose to belive that the wraiths made a mistake and did not kill Nogrod 2 nights ago. . .Now if Sally turns out to be the Seer, then somebody has been acting very weird.

++Sally

[wilwarin538]

K, thanks Nerwen.

I'm just gonna vote now cause I'm not positive that I'll be back, but I'll try.

++Sally

X'posted with Nerwen, Rune and Lhuna

[satansaloser2005]

You try to help your team out and look what they to do you....Typical.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

If Nogrod is the seer, then what sense does it make for the wraiths to leave him alive? Obviously it would be lovely for them to watch as we lynched our own seer, but still. . .

Of course Nogrod could be a wraith, with their relatively high numbers they could definitly afford to sacrifice one in order to draw out the seer. (but obviously then none of them would be the seer)

Then there is the chance of Sally being an ordo trying to draw attention away from the seer, but what kind of sense would that make?

What I am trying to say is this: the more I think about this situation the less sense it makes.

Rune darling, it's me. Do I ever make sense? (And I'm not saying I'm the seer impersonator, I'm just pointing out that I'm a bit far from typical. Kthnkx.)

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Sally is the type of person who would do exactly as she's doing now as a bored Ordo, attempting to protect the person she thought was the Seer. Nogrod, I think you're being overly paranoid.

In any case, whether or not Sally is lying, Lhuna is a wolf. It's clear we need to lynch her today.

Given that I'm just now getting back into the swing of things, can anyone tell me exactly what time the deadline is (aka: how many hours I have to vote?)

Well at least someone sees reason. Whether I'm an innocent or the real seer it's silly to be persecuted like this.
++Shasta for representative!

Originally Posted by Nienna

Sally are you the seer? If so why would you reveal if Nog was doing so well by himself?

Why let Nog go down for no reason? Besides, I was rather afraid (as I said earlier) that if I didn't say anything very soon no one would believe me. Too late, obviously.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

One more thing....I don't quite understand why everyone seems to be assuming Lhuna is guilty. Did I miss something??

Because I said so. If they don't believe me then they have no way to know this information.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Although I will confess I'm a little irritated that, given a chance to post, Sally said nothing about her reasoning. Here I am being accused of sticking my neck out for her; the least she could have done is be a little more forthright.

Sorry, love. I was absolutely exhausted when I got home and I'd made a list of posts to reply to and just didn't feel like getting around to them, so I kept it short and sweet so I could get to bed.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Lhuna: I still don't understand, now I'm seeing that yesterDay people were confused over why she hadn't been Night killed, I definitely missed something in here.

Sally: K, one thing I noticed in my re-reading, when Nogrod revealed my innocence she was all like "I'm of much the same opinion", are you claiming you "dreamt" me aswell?? Or you're just agreeing with him....I don't know. I really don't believe her, at all. So I'll be voting her, most probably.

Brinniel: Makes sense, I want to trust her, and because of that I feel like I shouldn't....I'm getting so paranoid. I honestly don't know about her...

In response to both your post and your question. There's a reason Lhuna hasn't been Night killed, I didn't dream of you just my opinion, and do trust Brinn, because she's innocent. Enjoy.


Currently I think I have....five votes? That means there's at least the chance to make this a tie and leave it to chance. Vote Lhuna and I assure you we will kill a baddie.


++Lhuna


ETA: I thought I had more posts quoted to respond to, so I know something's missing. If you asked me a question and I didn't answer it pose it again and I'll be sure to respond. Epic reply fail on my part, sorry.

[Nogrod]

Well this looks like being quite a game indeed!

I do approve different theories - and think that I have entertained a few versions myself as well. But I do not approve of clinging into illogical ones with all you can come up with. When someone defends his theory with someone sending PM's to wrong people it looks more like the end-result of the theory is more important than the evidence and the actual believability of it.

Yes Sally acts pretty weird whether as a wraith or as an innocent. But for innocent she acts even more weirder.

But I could see Legate's signature behind all this indeed. He had one Night to plot with the other wolves before his last Day broke and he might have suggested that if he is taken the others should leave me alive for one or two Nights so that you others would start mistrusting me and would eventually lynch me (and if we'd use all our Daily time into discussing my role the other wolves could hide more easily in the shadows).

Now this - even if it's a bit clumsy - could actually speak for that kind of an interpretation:

Originally Posted by Sally in #340

Oh, and to add. I honestly believe that Nog has nothing but good intentions for the village, so if you believe me trust him. Well, at least trust that he's innocent.

I mean if and when we lynch her and find out she's a ringwraith that might just be thought of adding some pressure on my status.

That's at least the best explanation I could come up with at the moment. And that being the case I do agree with Rune that it has been an epic failure.

Also I think Nerwen might be up to something by suggesting that Sally decided to act on an instinct in the morning without thinking it more closely where it would lead her. For otherwise her action sure looks odd. Or did she actually believe I would take the bait?

Anyway. Some thougths on other issues than Sally to follow.