For in that sleep of death what dreams may come. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mithalwen · 05-08-2009, 11:06 AM

[QUOTE=Bêthberry;595840]Ah now, your qualification of larger than a bathtub is as qualifying as my per se. I can't refer to the Bath Song!

So I wouldn't say that water is always associate with death in Middle-earth, especially since it is the domain of Ulmo. Symbolically it can be purification, rebirth, or baptism, as well as doom. Water is liminal in LotR but not necessarily always perilous.

But this takes us away from the topic. I first mentioned the details of Merry's experience under the influence of the Black Riders because it relates drowning with the dark side. It is Merry, after all, who dreams of drowning even under the safety and security of Tom and Goldberry. His is given Tolkien's personal nightmare and he is the one who helps overcome part of that dark despair.

QUOTE]

At the risk of going off topic it does say specifically in the prologue to LOTR that the Sea was a token of Death for hobbits. And while I accept that water can represent rebirth that surely must also imply Death! Anyway I may "have a thread coming on" so I will leave this for now..and that purveyor of sub-vogon poetry.

05-08-2009, 11:06 AM	#16
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	[QUOTE=Bêthberry;595840]Ah now, your qualification of larger than a bathtub is as qualifying as my per se. I can't refer to the Bath Song! So I wouldn't say that water is always associate with death in Middle-earth, especially since it is the domain of Ulmo. Symbolically it can be purification, rebirth, or baptism, as well as doom. Water is liminal in LotR but not necessarily always perilous. But this takes us away from the topic. I first mentioned the details of Merry's experience under the influence of the Black Riders because it relates drowning with the dark side. It is Merry, after all, who dreams of drowning even under the safety and security of Tom and Goldberry. His is given Tolkien's personal nightmare and he is the one who helps overcome part of that dark despair. QUOTE] At the risk of going off topic it does say specifically in the prologue to LOTR that the Sea was a token of Death for hobbits. And while I accept that water can represent rebirth that surely must also imply Death! Anyway I may "have a thread coming on" so I will leave this for now..and that purveyor of sub-vogon poetry. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace