WWLVIII: Escape From Angband (or Behavioral Modification)

[Mithalwen]

Now I am in I will give it as much attention as I can... but my heart.... is with the Phantom and lynching him will hurt me more than him

[Brinniel]

Garr, I got a vote because I was in class all day? I'm here now, though I can't promise I'll post too much. Keep in mind that Tuesday-Thursday, I'm gone for at least eight hours of the day, not to mention I've had a really frustrating week which has put me in a sour/stressed out mood. I only got three hours of sleep last night...

[Brinniel]

Okay, due to this behaviour modification, we really need to watch how we vote. That means we shouldn't vote for someone because they're too chatty, don't post enough, act annoying, etc. You never know...it could be a modification assignment. Instead, we should suspect/lynch based on who and what reasons players suspect one another. Going in that direction is more likely going to catch us a were-duck rather than just examining posting style, lack of serious participation, etc. In fact, I think it may be smart to carefully look at those who do choose to vote for someone based only on behaviour.

I'm glad Sally rejected a possible Gwath since I don't think it'd be fair for him to be lynched toDay after being wrongfully lynched on Day 1 last game. I won't vote Nogrod toDay either since I promised not to and too long have I been responsible for his death.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Okay, due to this behaviour modification, we really need to watch how we vote. That means we shouldn't vote for someone because they're too chatty, don't post enough, act annoying, etc. You never know...it could be a modification assignment. Instead, we should suspect/lynch based on who and what reasons players suspect one another. Going in that direction is more likely going to catch us a were-duck rather than just examining posting style, lack of serious participation, etc. In fact, I think it may be smart to carefully look at those who do choose to vote for someone based only on behaviour.

Hear! Hear! That was really sensible.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Instead, we should suspect/lynch based on who and what reasons players suspect one another.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Hear! Hear! That was really sensible.

Unless you have an obligation to protect someone and/or attack someone else because of what your "role" * is...

I don't like the way too many of you look like trying to fool others or act like total ignorants... Sally wished to make this insane, and I think there are people around who don't know whether the alliances / feuds you have been ordered to make are clear (eg. you don't know whether people you should defend or like/dislike LotR-wise are good or not in-gamewise, and vice versa).

Why are you guys hiding? You have a role? It looks like most of us have. Don't hide behind it. If you all act like a "ducking away" gifted there will be no game but just a lottery! We all have secrets so let's play with this rare chance of gaming full-steam!

You're not that important, anyone of you alone, when we all have some roles to fill!

*Role in this sense of whether you're Aragorn, Gandalf, Hama, Frodo... whatever; and who is your LotR friend or enemy.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

*Role in this sense of whether you're Aragorn, Gandalf, Hama, Frodo... whatever; and who is your LotR friend or enemy.

And where did you get the idea people are Aragorn, Gandalf, Háma or Frodo?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Unless you have an obligation to protect someone and/or attack someone else because of what your "role" * is...

I find that slightly unlikely... it would be quite unfair... Unless there were two people who were told to get each other lynched, but I think that should be spotted easily enough.

edit: xed with Legate... and yeah, I'm not Háma or Frodo either

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate

I am sorry, sir. Is that sufficient?

No it is not. I never said it was. How so touchy about a side-sentence?

Originally Posted by Legate

I never talk about WW outside the game

I do actually believe you, but that's not so simple... and really that was a pointing out of a principle, not a point made against any particular people this game.

Originally Posted by Legate

And where did you get the idea people are Aragorn, Gandalf, Háma or Frodo?

Well I am a person from the LotR in this game and I have my loyalties - notwithstanding who I think they are ingamewise.

Originally Posted by Lommy

it would be quite unfair...

You really thought this would be a fair game for the player? Maybe you have a baddie role that is clear-cut and easy with no extra-requirements, but I really have to try to balance what I say between the requirements I have (not to be modfired for not obeying) and what I think myself.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

No it is not. I never said it was. How so touchy about a side-sentence?

Hey, nay It was not touchy. I could have put a smiley there. It was a question, rather jesting actually.

Well I am a person from the LotR in this game and I have my loyalties - notwithstanding who I think they are ingamewise.

Great, as Phantom (in P&A, the volume where Alien's mother appears for the first time) would say, now that just raises forther questions...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, and thank you, Dury (For the votes also )

Not very much, it seems.

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Garr, I got a vote because I was in class all day? I'm here now, though I can't promise I'll post too much. Keep in mind that Tuesday-Thursday, I'm gone for at least eight hours of the day, not to mention I've had a really frustrating week which has put me in a sour/stressed out mood. I only got three hours of sleep last night...

*hugs*

and just fyi i student teach all day so i apologize for the large gaps in my posting and that also means that i must accomplish sleep.

So far it seems like a lot of people are accusing a lot of other people based on very little considering there has only been one day's worth of posting. After toNight we should know much more or even after voting toDay. I'm going to read back through and see if i can come up with anything concrete and if not i'll probably be voting based on gut feelings.

X-ed with everyone since the Brinn quote

[Durelin]

So, about those who have been voted so far...

Nogrod bothers me but I do not think he is of evil sorts.

Lari seems like a fine choice, really. I'd like to give her a chance to do some more posting toDay, though. So far she's been pretty much all banter, and one thing in one of her few substantial posts bothered me:

Originally Posted by Lari

Clearly we are a trio of were-librarians...I feel an idea for a WW game coming on...

Or we were all hanously bored at work so we kept going on this. Or two of us where hanously bored, goaded on by the third and one of us actually has to post banter and nothing else. You don't know. Maybe all of us have to post only banter and nothing serious.

Did you really feel the need to defend yourself from my nonsensical summary? That's pretty odd.

Brinniel so far has been on the edge of everything, and I'm not sure what to think of her. I see she's around now, though, and really has some good things to say. Except that I have no idea how we're ever to vote for someone except based on their behavior...you can base it purely on who votes for whom but is that necessarily separate of their behavior... An easy vote at the time...

So Gwath. I wish he was...um...around, but...Mac's vote really bothers me. Okay, 'random' Day 1 vote (though people always claim it's never random - watch me!), but...

Originally Posted by Mac

There are some people for who I could justify a vote for, but I don't feel extremely comfortable with either. I think I'll vote for someone who only bantered so far. It's Nienna's first game and Miri told us she will post something worthwhile later, so they're off the hook. Unless I'm forgetting someone, this leaves Brinn and Gwath.

Just a funny way of going about it. Just say it's random, or try a little harder to rationalize it. And you know, Fea and Nilp's contribution to the game has been about the same as Gwath's and Brinniel's, Fea just slightly higher in post count, so I'm not sure why they were not included in your options.

[Nogrod]

Dury. Your nice words make me doubt this decision, but as I know you're an intelligent person, I can also see your way of talking very nicely to me after I suspected you from a slip in the first place - and not giving that suspicion up - could have produced just that careful "being nice"-thing.

And I really like to play with you. But this kind of settled it for me from choosing between you, Rikae and the "nonsensers", as I think I may have a catch here. (Remember the bad ones are most of the times those who feel good in daylight)

Originally Posted by Durelin

So, about those who have been voted so far...

How nice a choice! Only four votes have been given and you are rushing to make us think only those who have been voted should be concentrated on? Or if you think that is too far-fetched, then let's say you were confident enough to see someone of those four to go as it meant nothing bad to your fellows - and you have fellows. Otherwise you would have been a bit more open-minded about it.

I mean only four votes up to now. Why encourage thinking mainly of them (yeah, you mentioned a few others in the end of the post to be sure but they were not like "let's consider these")? And what bothers me is that you have nothing particular to say about any of these four first votes - so you just want to concentrate our thinking on these people - wishing to see those people discussed while you yourself can afterwards say you had no damning points on them if one of them gets lynched and is proved to be an innocent?

++ Durelin

Originally Posted by Brinn

A role is a role and not the same as behaviour modification. Suspicions and votes can give us clues to roles as people will make suspicions based on what their own role is. And while someone's behaviour may be entirely screwed up, I can't imagine the modification alone would ultimately affect their vote. Though I could be wrong...this is Sally's game after all...

Now you ignore the quotation marks there and the asterisk which gives the explanation of it - which point to the difference between a role in a game (ordo, wolf, seer, ranger...) and a "role" in this game where we are fugitives from the LotR world (eg. Aragorn, Frodo, Saruman... whatever you are) - just read the prologue... I'm not sure if you're a cobbler and did that on purpose or not but if not, please read the posts first...

EDIT: x'd from the beginning of the page...

EDIT2: "the asterisk which gives the explanation of it" - the asterisk in itself doesn't explain anything of course - but in the post Brinn is quoting there was a relative asterisk in the end of the post making the explanation I made here...

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

"role" in this game where we are fugitives from the LotR world (eg. Aragorn, Frodo, Saruman... whatever you are)

Oh. I thought you meant the characters represented gifted, were-duck, cobbler roles, etc.

Okay, shutting up for the next 50 minutes. I'm watching Lost.

[Gwathagor]

As far as I can tell, Nogrod seems to be his usual self.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Garr, I got a vote because I was in class all day? I'm here now, though I can't promise I'll post too much. Keep in mind that Tuesday-Thursday, I'm gone for at least eight hours of the day, not to mention I've had a really frustrating week which has put me in a sour/stressed out mood. I only got three hours of sleep last night...

Ah, that would explain the incredibly terse posts.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

but my heart.... is with the Phantom and lynching him will hurt me more than him

What's happened to you lately? Have you consulted a doctor?


Of those "banterers only" I could vote for, I can only say the following right now.

Mirandir seems to have been the "lynch her!" - person. Calling a lynch for anything and all the time - jokingly of course - but still that seems to have been her modus operandi. I do not think she is a good-willed person but probably a cobbler more than a wereduck/-goose whatever.

Lari has made some interesting things after that banter-phase, like this speculation of a "good-cobbler" which Mac questioned for a reason. I think her explanation of that as a goodie who has more than one vote looks quite terribly fabricated (there was that kind of role earlier but that was not a cobbler) - and in a way something she possibly felt she had to come up with when she thought she was in trouble being questioned. That is no cobbler. Cobbler is something and wants to do the other thing.

The best possibility of a good cobbler I could come up with is one who wants to look foul but to make the case of the goodies behind that foul-mask (and that would require some extraordinary game-mechanics where the trust of the wolves could pay off to the good-cobbler and the village - maybe I'll include one in my next game from this idea?).

But her later idea about her, Nienna and Mira being together with a task from Day2 on looks even more weird. Like she wanted to press the indistinguishability of the three from each other. A wolf would love to make that impression: I am something these two are as well... and we're indistinguishable anyway we three? So you can't choose...

Brinn I really don't know what to say about her. She hasn't basically made any sense and she is one who should be able to do that. *Huge disappointment* I know she's the master-deceiver and manages to look innocent everytime - but she has also been unduly lynched for that a many times. And to get personal: she has been responsible of killing me in quite a many games lately far too early. *bad girl!* (takes back a bit after seeing her last post)

Need to think a minute about this all.

Where are you guys? There are gazillions of people in the invisible mode online but only a few post here so many of you must be around!

Many people have a role eg. they won't post as not to be suspected. Just check who could post and who is not doing it and make your calculations from that toMorrow. (meaning Mith is innocent as well as Brinn - possibly - and what about Legate, Lommy... bad! Unless they come up with a huge post in the near future explaining their silence right now with the fact that they are doing great tasks taking all their attention for hours).

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

and what about Legate, Lommy... bad! Unless they come up with a huge post in the near future explaining their silence right now with the fact that they are doing great tasks taking all their attention for hours).

Does talking to each other on MSN count?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Does talking to each other on MSN count?

I don't want to get a tough with this as Mith did the last time around but there is actually something that kind of is bad for the game there.

Not that people shouldn't socialise at all when a game is underway but when people interact privately while a game is on there is a feeling of... Well, hard to say.

I know we have lived under a same roof during weekends while a game has been on but that's a bit different. Or then I'm just an oldie not seeing the exact similarity.

Whatever. I have no time for this discussion anyway as I need to wake up quite early and I need to decide on my vote like now (2AM here).

So just to make a mild protest.

[Thinlómien]

But daddy dear, I swear the game has not and will not be mentioned.

I now know what's Nog's posting requirement - he's the complainer and has to complain about everything!

To be blunt, my problem is also that I can't get a grip of this game so I'm doing other stuff than trying to get a grip - talking with people on MSN, hanging around in Facebook etc. Pitiful, I know. I'll try to come up with something productive before I go to sleep.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I don't want to get a tough with this as Mith did the last time around but there is actually something that kind of is bad for the game there.

Not that people shouldn't socialise at all when a game is underway but when people interact privately while a game is on there is a feeling of... Well, hard to say.

Since there are several players in this game who know one another quite well, private interactions are a bit unavoidable. So long as it doesn't affect the game or its outcome in any way, I see no problem with members part of the same game IMing each other.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Unless you have an obligation to protect someone and/or attack someone else because of what your "role" * is...

A role is a role and not the same as behaviour modification. Suspicions and votes can give us clues to roles as people will make suspicions based on what their own role is. And while someone's behaviour may be entirely screwed up, I can't imagine the modification alone would ultimately affect their vote. Though I could be wrong...this is Sally's game after all...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Okay, due to this behaviour modification, we really need to watch how we vote. That means we shouldn't vote for someone because they're too chatty, don't post enough, act annoying, etc. You never know...it could be a modification assignment. Instead, we should suspect/lynch based on who and what reasons players suspect one another. Going in that direction is more likely going to catch us a were-duck rather than just examining posting style, lack of serious participation, etc. In fact, I think it may be smart to carefully look at those who do choose to vote for someone based only on behaviour.

Perfectly, completely agreed. Makes me think good of ye.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

and what about Legate, Lommy... bad! Unless they come up with a huge post in the near future explaining their silence right now with the fact that they are doing great tasks taking all their attention for hours).

I am sorry, sir. Is that sufficient?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I don't want to get a tough with this as Mith did the last time around but there is actually something that kind of is bad for the game there.

Not that people shouldn't socialise at all when a game is underway but when people interact privately while a game is on there is a feeling of... Well, hard to say.

But it does not concern the game at all. Besides, I never talk about WW outside the game (except when I am safely dead). (/end of out-game note)

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Brinn

Instead, we should suspect/lynch based on who and what reasons players suspect one another.

(Good sentence to point out, I steal the quote from Nog) But is that really removed from their 'behavior', whatever our definition?

Nogrod, your last post confuses me greatly. Are you specifically addressing...Brinn and Lommy +...?

And LotR roles? I understand this is the Downs and all, but I'm not getting you.

But I don't care if I get an explanation and promise I won't go voting you for being confusing or anything. I don't want to keep you here when it's so late.

(Edit: Crossed with Legate and Lommy. Ah, they don't get him either...)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

What are the votes this far anyway?

[Durelin]

Lommy and Legate, you are so cute right now, btw.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

You sicken me all.

A plague on all your posts.

++Village

++Sally and Mnemo

++the phantom

I'll be here tomorrow, though now I wish I weren't.

Post-traumatic possums: My mum is, of course, exempted from the sickening and the plague, and, oh yeah, the vote:

--Mithalwen (*hugs*)

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What's happened to you lately? Have you consulted a doctor?

Well Nogrod, you see, I am not quite myself at the moment, but it is pointless to consult a cardiologist or even a psychiatrist as there is no cure known to medicine. Woe is me....


Your early vote is a bit of a change too....

Well I have had a quick read through and what a lot has happened. I need to digest have a think another quick read and drive 20 miles to a cyber cafe so I shall be gone a little while and back for a long one. I shall not be idle.

[the phantom]

I've gotta fever! And the only prescription... is more Mithalwen.

[Mithalwen]

Fever? What a lovely way to burn

[Mithalwen]

and I am sorry not to be in the in crowd and out of the loop but could people please use other players screen names or obvious derivatives thereof?

I am finding this game confusing enough without having to cope with Michael Jackson's chimp and the answer to "what's brown and sticky?"

[Lariren Shadow]

Stick/Trunk/Trunk of Tree=Mira/Miri
Bubbles=Mac

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

and I am sorry not to be in the in crowd and out of the loop but could people please use other players screen names or obvious derivatives thereof?

I am finding this game confusing enough without having to cope with Michael Jackson's chimp and the answer to "what's brown and sticky?"

Awwwww, poor ickle Mith....*hugs you*


Bubbles=Mac
Stick (or any derivative thereof)=Mira


EDIT: x'd with the ever-helpful Lari