Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[Nogrod]

I might almost vote you tp from that response you gave to Dury. I really don't believe a word from it - well okay some words maybe but overall it looks like a very bad apology.

The question is whether you tried to save Fea just because you love to play with her or because you realised that my argument about her being the cobbler was indeed believable as Fea would be on your side in voting & general hassle later on? I mean you have to prove your alliances in a way or another when you can't PM, and that would be a good way to do that? Building trust? Right?

Also the way you give the impression you understand everything that is going on and then go on being nice to everyone - and avoid making any actual suspicions - looks really like a standard intelligent baddie behaviour. What was it you said to me late yesterDay?

Originally Posted by tp

And despite how much we disagree, I still think Nog is fine. And if he's right about Fea then I'll support whatever he does tomorrow.

To me that looks very suspicious indeed... Be nice to the one you're intending to kill later - after you have toyed with him first. No traces left as you have been leaning to trust that one person for a Day or two. You can say "oh my, why they killed him, I thought he was okay all the time!". I just think you overdid it there - or then it is the difference between American and Finnish culture of saying things...

And why did you have to defend your vote in the first place against Dury's point which wasn't actually anything big as such? Bad conscience perhaps?

I like the way you play but this time I think I have reasons to actually suspect you.

Originally Posted by Sally

Silly man, get some rest. Mistress Sally commands it.

In a minute mom... in a minute...

[the phantom]

Leave me alone till I'm done with my reading Nog.

Originally Posted by Nog

I really don't believe a word from it - well okay some words maybe but overall it looks like a very bad apology.

You think I'm the type to make an apology for voting a certain way? Whatever. I might say sorry to Gwath, but it would be more along the lines of "Sorry you were in the position you were in at the time that I needed someone to save Fea with". I do genuinely feel bad about him getting lynched the first day. I pretty much always feel bad for whoever gets killed Day 1 and Night 2, because they didn't get to play much. Any sorrow you may detect in my post had only to do with that feeling.

Originally Posted by Nog

Also the way you give the impression you understand everything that is going on and then go on being nice to everyone - and avoid making any actual suspicions

I told you quite clearly yesterday that I did not have any even halfway decent suspicions of guilt. It was Day 1. Is it really surprising? I mean come on, Nog. The logic that you are using on my defense of Fea and my vote does not function properly on Day 1.

And really- you suspect me because I disagreed with you and still thought you were innocent? That's just silly. Simple odds say you are innocent, and simple odds say that your heaviest suspicion yesterday was wrong, so really now. You have to do better than that, Nog.

Back to reading...

[Nogrod]

Going back to the last stages of yesterDay then and to things I don't like.

Mirandir posting 7 minutes before the deadline with a vote tally and missing the vote.

Was it that hard a situation for you to choose? How did you manage to miss the deadline from 7 minutes?

Isabell's vote for Gwath almost twenty minutes before the DL and still hanging around to the end like it was not of your concern what happens - just bringnig forwards a tally and then a side comment about who had voted. I mean you look too cool there. Where you an innocent you would have been somewhat troubled whether what was being decided was going the right way (as we innocents don't know it but the baddies do know it). So it was going well and you felt easy there?

Sally's vote for Fea (still thinking Fea is the cobbler eg. not known to the baddies) disturbs me as well... and tp at the moment.

But I will say of these if looking at one of the baddie-trio I'm the most positive with

++ Izzy

I once got the wolf-Morm for this very same reason. He was too easy, too unconcerned about how the voting went as the primary candidates were not from his baddie-team. And it can be seen.

I may be able to check in before the deadline or then not. Depends if I can get up early enough before the school.

Good hunting!

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Mirandir posting 7 minutes before the deadline with a vote tally and missing the vote.

Was it that hard a situation for you to choose? How did you manage to miss the deadline from 7 minutes?

Honestly, as I stated earlier today, I got distracted and came back literally a minute after deadline. I'll be back with decent analysis (fingers crossed) after reading a 200 page book for a paper that I just found out is due tomorrow morning.

[Nogrod]

I agree with Rikae's points on Izzy. Also I would underline that I have played with Izzy a few games and know she's perfectly cabable of producing actual points but now she seems to shy away of making any actual thoughts.

I would be very much ready to vote for Kath for sheer inattendance but if there is a bigger post coming I will have to cease my verdict. She has the nasty way of sneaking through the first Days with just these RL-problems but then somehow she finds more time later in the game - and she has won (or gotten very far) a few times as baddie exactly that way.

Sally and Brinn bother me as well. Sally's vote yesterDay especially and Brinn's familiar carefulness and agreeableness just creep me out.

Dury feels like too straightforward and challenging to be a baddie - unless this league of friends is all goodies and she's a baddie of a bunch of relatively unconnected people and opens her frustration with the situation...

Rikae has good points but that's normal - whatever her role is. Somehow my guts once again yell that she's a baddie but I have no clear place to point the suspicion into. Maybe it's something to do with her slightly opportunistic stance eg. she goes on building cases or making remarks on subjects that are probably going to fall nicely to the general feeling or something? There is something fishy there even if I can't pinpoint it.

Okay. Time's out very soon...

(Hopefully I managed to get half of you mad and retaliatory with this! But really, this is what we need to do!)

A cigarette and a decision...


Oh no... first a quick answer...

Originally Posted by tp

I told you quite clearly yesterday that I did not have any even halfway decent suspicions of guilt. It was Day 1. Is it really surprising? I mean come on, Nog. The logic that you are using on my defense of Fea and my vote does not function properly on Day 1.

Now you're avoiding the beef here. On Day1, yes, you're right, we rarely have anything on Day1... but this time we had... and have (albeit it's probably too late now to lynch a cobbler any more). You even agreed with the point but still managed to play away with it. Okay, I don't want to sound like a monomaniac but really the way you have acted looks more like "hey, I got this and will help this ally of mine looking as disinterested as possible". Not to say looking as agreeable as possible in the meantime eg. not trying to stir up any suspicions or retaliatory feelings. In which you're pretty darn good at. *envies* But really, what should innocents do; try to abstain from controversies just to keep their lives or to challenge and try others so that others might see things? You have been very uncontroversial this time and it spells devilry to me.

Originally Posted by tp

And really- you suspect me because I disagreed with you and still thought you were innocent? That's just silly.

No. Not just because you disagreed and still said you thought me innocent, but the way in which you did it. And as a senior WW-gamer you know that those who talk the nicest to you by Day tend to be the ones who stab you at Nights. You're not that naïve to think that those who rub you the right way during the Days actually love you and wouldn't hurt you during the Night?

And let it be said that your willingness to engage in this whole discussions speaks it's own language. I don't remember you to have sticked into futile discussions about your possible guilt - as no one will lynch you; never and no one - you're for the wolves to decide? But if there are some semi-actual suspicions and you possibly are a baddie is this the way you (over)react then? Oh good God...

Okay. I'm not too sure about this and would hate to make a mistake here. I need to think about this once more before going to sleep. I mean I was going to vote for someone else as I would hate to lose your wits were you an innocent but now I will have to reconsider.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

On Day1, yes, you're right, we rarely have anything on Day1... but this time we had... and have (albeit it's probably too late now to lynch a cobbler any more). You even agreed with the point but still managed to play away with it.

You are not entirely accurate here. I only conceded to your view on Fea in the sense that I wanted to let you know that I understood your argument clearly (because before that there was some confusion if you will recall).

However, I don't recall that I ever was swayed to believe she was a WereCreature, and said so. I said that the worst I would believe was Cobbler, and I didn't even believe that. So trying to say that I was somehow trying to weasel out of voting for someone who looked guilty is quite incorrect. I did not think she was guilty. Plain and simple.

But really, what should innocents do; try to abstain from controversies just to keep their lives or to challenge and try others so that others might see things? You have been very uncontroversial this time and it spells devilry to me.

First, it was only Day 1. There's still plenty of time for controversy. Second, I've been busier than usual. Third, other people have been much less focused on me than usual.

Originally Posted by Nog

I don't remember you to have sticked into futile discussions about your possible guilt

Now this comment I agree with completely. As most anyone will tell you, I am one of the most obsessive self-defenders ever to post on a Werewolf thread. No matter what my role, I respond to any guilty statement about me that I can possibly respond to. I can't recall any village in which I did not defend myself quite vigorously if I was attacked. I can recall typing entire sentences in capital letters and yelling and thrashing like crazy. So really Nog, I have to say you must be mis-remembering my play style.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I can't recall any village in which I did not defend myself quite vigorously if I was attacked. I can recall typing entire sentences in capital letters and yelling and thrashing like crazy.

Maybe you have just been protected by the halo of "the phantom" the last year or two and have not needed to do that as I don't actually quite remember that, but on some minor issues...

Good work-out for you to need to try it for a long time, isn't it?
(Or maybe this is one of those minor issues as well in the end...)

Anyway, good night now everyone - I see some already eaten pieces require some polishing as they look reaally bad laying there outside the game board...

[Mnemosyne]

Well, I'm back.

To find that the Fea controversy from yesterDay has descended into an out and out phantom versus Nog war.

Gah. Whenever I come across these, they always end up being either 1). Two innocents hacking at each other (while the wolves snigger in the background), or 2). Two wolves making a huge case against each other so that when one of them dies the other will be Trusted. Usually it's much more often option 1).

So I'm very pleased to see that Nog voted for Izzy. I'm tempted to look into her more, but he and Rikae have already done that and I'd like to try to bring some other not-yet-looked-at players into the mix.

Sally, thanks for your explanation; since I know you were pressed for time I'll let it slide... toDay.

Brinn's vote from yesterday worries me, though.

Hopefully I'll be back with more later; alas, being a chess piece is not my only occupation.

I also knit.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

Maybe you have just been protected by the halo of "the phantom" the last year or two and have not needed to do that as I don't actually quite remember that

Hmm... Well maybe that's partly true, but recently wouldn't you say I was quite the insane defender when Boro and I were under fire in that game that Brin finished off? I mean, just completely obsessive, yes? That's the sort of thing that I'm talking about. Anyway...

I've finished my Day 1 person by person read through, except for Nog and Mnem (I started at the bottom of the posting list). And right now there's too much going on around me to do more reading, so I'll have to wait on those two until I am home.

I'll go ahead and post a bit about the other people in a little bit.

[Mnemosyne]

Hurrah! Not only is Kath around; she's also coherent! (Sorry we didn't give you much post fodder early Day 1.)

Probably going to start out looking at Brinn if I can; see how she acted yesterDay/toDay aside from that vote. Won't have time to go over everyone tonight, though.

[Mnemosyne]

I hope Brinn is on more today, just so that I can get a better handle on her.

But since she made that "this Fea thing reminds me of last game" post (which I had clean forgotten about), in between her "top three" post and the vote for Gwath I'm inclined to find her a bit less suspicious than I had.

Her point about needing to kill wolves, not the bear, is particularly interesting because it goes against everything everyone else has been saying. But I don't know so much about that: killing wolves extends the number of days till innocents = wolves. Killing a bear means fewer kills per night.

So, yes, valid point, especially when raised against all the others.

But amidst all this discussion of whom we need to get role-wise (and yes, I know, I'm as guilty of this as everyone else) we're not looking at actual suspects.

So I'd like to see more of Brinn, especially if/as she starts gunning after other players, because this analysis has left me decidedly neutral on her. About all I have to go on right now is her list and her vote.

[the phantom]

Please bear in mind that everything I say here is based only upon things that happened before Day 2 began. I'm trying to be just as thorough as usual despite having less time.

Also keep in mind that I am absolutely not saying everything that I think about people. There are a couple individuals that I strongly suspect of being White Gifted (one for sure), so obviously pointing it out would not be intelligent. In addition, some opinions will be based more upon gut feeling (the way they're speaking, etc) and thus not much can be said other than "innocent" or "shady".

Kath- Obviously, I'd like to see more posts. But nothing set off alarms of any kind.
Durelin- Completely undecided at this point.
Wilwa- I think she's fine, and will trust her until she gives me a reason not to.
Lari- Don't have a strong opinion, but my weak opinion is favorable.
Brin- I'm extremely curious about her. She's given me strong vibes of both White and Black.
Fea- I still think she's innocent. The WereCreatures will leave her around hoping we'll lynch her, and I'd like to give her the chance to make them pay for it.
Mira- For all her posts I couldn't tell much of anything about what she actually thought. We'll see if she picks it up today.
Izzy- I'm definitely leaning innocent with her.
Hansy- On one hand I like his style. On the other hand he puts off a bad vibe or two. But then again I feel him overall innocent and fear he will be used as lynch fodder by opportunistic WereCreatures.
Sally- Difficulties for her led to an odd day. I was unable to form any opinion.
Rikae- Another one I'm definitely liking at this point. I'll defend her strongly if she's threatened.

I realize that's not much writing for a couple hours worth of reading, but at this time I choose not to be more detailed due to safety reasons and time constraints. But I figure you at least know quite clearly where I stand after Day 1 and Night 2.

[Hansy]

Okay. I decided I'm following my gut on this one.

++Nogrod

I don't like the way many of his posts sound; too calculated, too "polished" as he said itself. And I think he's trying to divert us on going after "cobblers" - just compare the time he spent analyzing Fea, then he throws an Izzy vote out of nowhere.
I wanted him to be around to give his thoughts on this; I'll come here later, myself.