Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Fea

But then, Nog, you were like "Say what? Fea, you're on crack." which made me then feel quite confident that I was, in fact, grasping at straws out of a rather desperate hope that Day Ones may, at some point in my life, prove useful.

Which I took to mean, Gwath, that Fea realized that her entire Seer Conspiracy Theory was complete and utter bunk and so now she was explaining the whole thing (i.e., why she made that cryptic comment to begin with).

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Which I took to mean, Gwath, that Fea realized that her entire Seer Conspiracy Theory was complete and utter bunk and so now she was explaining the whole thing (i.e., why she made that cryptic comment to begin with).

I think that Fea is too smart not to have taken into account the possibility that her comment would be enough to make the baddies consider whether Nogrod might actually be the Seer. Therefore, I think it likely she knew exactly what she did. It was just enough of hint to draw the baddies' attention to Nogrod, but not enough to make it look like she was painting a target on his back or something. Does that make sense?

[Mnemosyne]

To Gwath:

I suppose so. I thought it was just Fea being Fea and putting random crap into her post to confuse the heck out of people when it happened. You make more sense, but I still think lynching Fea is a big mistake at this point in the game.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I think that Fea is too smart not to have taken into account the possibility that her comment would be enough to make the baddies consider whether Nogrod might actually be the Seer. Therefore, I think it likely she knew exactly what she did. It was just enough of hint to draw the baddies' attention to Nogrod, but not enough to make it look like she was painting a target on his back or something. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does, actually. The bit I couldn't find was her explanation (the Star Wars stuff).

It's rather headache-inducing. The original comment doesn't seem like much– in fact I was surprised Nogrod reacted to it– but she does appear to be saying she thought Nogrod was the Seer at the time she made it.

EDIT: x'd since Nog at #180.

[the phantom]

Ah, I think I see what Nog was talking about. I'm not sure what Gwath is talking about though. The section you quoted was after the fact. Fea's Seer theory had already been blown away, so it was merely an explanation for her behavior.

What I believe Nog was referencing was the fact that Fea had actually referred to him in the post where she voted, in a round-about way citing him as a reason for her vote for Hansy.

While it may have been reckless, it seems to me that it was less straightforward than it could have been (which makes her look better), while at the same time leaving an obvious opening for Nog to hint back and confirm her suspicions. Essentially, she was hoping she had spotted the Seer and was trying to see if she could work with him.

In my mind, the only crime here was that she was a bit reckless. I mean- what if it had turned out that she was right? And then suppose someone questioned why she mentioned Nog as support for her vote- how could she have explained that away in a manner that did not point a death-arrow at NogBishop?

Did you have a plan for that Fea?

X-post with Nog and Gwath

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

What I believe Nog was referencing was the fact that Fea had actually referred to him in the post where she voted, in a round-about way citing him as a reason for her vote for Hansy.

Well, it took time for you to see it... I only referred to it something like five times...

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

But why did she voice it in the first place if she really thought I was the seer?

I wouldn't go so far as to say she voiced it. She merely made a comment that is impossible to understand that mentioned you in it.

As I said earlier, it was a bit reckless to make a comment that is difficult to explain your way out of, but she may have been banking on no one even bothering to say anything about it. I don't know.

I understand your reaction completely, but I'm thinking this sort of thing falls right into line with the sort of person Fea is.

And why did she explain it that openly after being asked about it?

Now this I'm not with you on. The fact that you asked her about it made it clear to her that her theory was wrong (if it was correct you would've reacted much differently), so why not just explain?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

Well, it took time for you to see it... I only referred to it something like five times...

Sorry about that. I'm having difficulty keeping everything straight tonight. I'm trying to do several other things at the same time. Big day tomorrow.

[Mnemosyne]

Also, Nog, the reason I at least was going after Gwath was because he took up your argument so willingly and voted rather quickly too. Looks tricksy, that.

[the phantom]

As far as saying that Fea was trying to call attention to Nog in hopes that he'd die during the Night...

Why would she do that?

If she's a WereWolf- kill him tonight.

If she's the WereBear- kill him tonight.

Why bother hinting or anything of the sort?

Unless you're saying she's the Black Pawn, but if that's the case she could've been more careful and then right before deadline post her case as to why Nog is the White Bishop and request he be lynched. Plus, is a Pawn all we're gunning for anyway?

Yeah, yeah, it's better than hitting a Gifted, but still. I don't know. If she's guilty then the Black Pawn is the only thing that I think she could be. I don't think the chance of such a small pay-off is worth it, especially as her behavior is consistent with typical meddling reckless devious Fea that we know and love.

And no, I'm not trying to say your votes are bad. You've given your reasons, and I can see where you are coming from. Frankly you have a better case of guilt than any that I have right now, so I'll at least give you that.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

Wouldn't you - both as a seer or as an ordo - have asked her to check what she will answer?

I guess this is where we split ways. No- as a Seer who dreamed Hansy as the WereBear I would not have questioned her. Definitely not! It would call attention to it. It would scream "Kill me, WereCreatures!"

What would I do? I would make some sort of subtle comment back (a wink or nudge basically) letting her know that she was doing well, or something along those lines. I would figure "She's spotted it, so if she's a WereCreature I'm dead tonight anyway. I might as well gamble that she's not and see if I can forge a useful alliance."

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

As far as saying that Fea was trying to call attention to Nog in hopes that he'd die during the Night...

Why would she do that?

If she's a WereWolf- kill him tonight.

If she's the WereBear- kill him tonight.

Why bother hinting or anything of the sort?

Unless you're saying she's the Black Pawn, but if that's the case she could've been more careful and then right before deadline post her case as to why Nog is the White Bishop and request he be lynched. Plus, is a Pawn all we're gunning for anyway?

I assumed they were saying she's the Black Pawn. Although, now that you mention it, one of the other baddies might try to get a reaction out of the suspected Seer, as a test.

Your theory, meanwhile, is that innocent Fea was trying to hint to the Seer? Very foolhardy– but possible, knowing her.

EDIT: X'd since tp at #193.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Yeah, yeah, it's better than hitting a Gifted, but still. I don't know. If she's guilty then the Black Pawn is the only thing that I think she could be. I don't think the chance of such a small pay-off is worth it.

What I think is that she has no good intentions - whatever her role is. You may be right about her being the Black Pawn. It's the most probable answer. I agree. But as you said yourself: better a cobbler hanged than a gifted - or do you have a more believable case against a baddie? With Fea I feel we get someone who's not on the good side.

I wouldn't go for Fea with null reasons on Day1. Nope. Never. But now I think we're really after a baddie - even if just a cobbler she might be - and who knows if we get a bigger fish...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Now this I'm not with you on. The fact that you asked her about it made it clear to her that her theory was wrong (if it was correct you would've reacted much differently)

I can see the way you defend Fea both socially and argumentatively, but with the latter I still disagree. Wouldn't you - both as a seer or as an ordo - have asked her to check what she will answer? Would you have left that kind of thing just to the chance if the baddies notice it or not and you gain nothing of it? Of course you would have asked about it were you an innocent as it's a possibility to get hints from a baddie. Sure you would. Only if you had no pressing need for any information would you have left that kind of a chance untested? So what are your loyalities this time tp?

[Isabellkya]

At first I was quite confused as to what Phantom and Nerwen thought they had missed. It made me think I had missed something as well.
But, Fea's explanation of her "cryptic" hint or what have you - seemed to be nothing out of the ordinary for her.


I am going to stick with my earlier doubts. It may be your style, which I can't blame you for. I had a brief chance to try and sift through your past games - and only had time to quickly go through your most recent one's first Day. You seemed to be a bit more aggressive in it, than you are here. What that says, not entirely sure. I'd rather vote for one I've got doubts on, than leave it to a toss of a die.

++Gwath


X'ed since Nog's #185.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

So what are your loyalities this time tp?

I will aid whoever tells me I'm smart and funny.

Originally Posted by Nog

waiting for a better case.

You won't get one from me. I have no guilty vibes thus far. I certainly suspect one or two people of being more than Pawns, but as I think they are just as likely to be White pieces, I'm not about to name them right before the WereCreatures get their Nightly kills. I'll read this day through tomorrow and then I'll be able to make a couple of cases.

At least I hope so.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Your theory, meanwhile, is that innocent Fea was trying to hint to the Seer?

Yeah. Like I did with Boro a couple games ago.

[satansaloser2005]

Day One Votes

Kath-->Nerwen at 6:36am
Fea-->Hansy at 4:37pm
Durie-->Sally at 4:39pm
Steve-->Gwath at 4:55pm
Eomer-->Sally at 6:18pm
Rikae-->Steve at 9:26pm
Hansy-->Fea at 9:45pm
Lari-->Nog at 10:17pm
Nog-->Fea at 10:25pm
Willa-->Steve at 10:36pm
Gwath-->Fea at 10:41pm
Izzy-->Gwath at 11:37pm
Sally-->Fea at 11:56pm
Nemo-->Steve at 11:58pm
Phantom-->Gwath at 11:58pm
Brinn-->Gwath at 11:59pm

Did not vote: Mira

Times are Central, GMT-6, known baddies are underlined and known innocents italicized. And for anyone who happens to not know, Steve is Eon.

[Mirandir]

I just want to apologize for not voting last night. There really is no excuse, but I got distracted shortly before deadline and by the time I remembered (at 1:01), it was too late. For what it's worth my vote was going to be for Gwath for the purpose of not lynching Fea.

[Mnemosyne]

I just did a quick numbers crunch to see where we stand right now. So forgive me for pointing out the obvious.

We're at 7 ordos, 3 gifteds, and 5 baddies (one of whom counts towards the ordo tally).

We outnumber them 2:1 at the moment. Or, statistically, one of those of us who have posted thus far toDay is playing for Sauron.

With this whole 2 kills/night thing, this margin is Not Good.

On the other hand, that makes our chances of killing a baddie at Day better.

One third of the players at the moment are evil. Keep that in mind, folks.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

One third of the players at the moment are evil. Keep that in mind, folks.

Do you mean in general or who are posting right now? Forgive me if it's obvious but my mind is functioning at very limited capacity at the moment.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nemo

But I don't want to let Fea die, not yet.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But how about you all picking the "save Fea" -argument whatever the cost? Doesn't it look suspicious at all?

Haha, this is totally reminding me of last game.

And if it really is just like last game, it'd mean that Fea is innocent. But what would that make the other two candidates I had in mind?

Of course, just because something similar happened in last game doesn't it'll have the same results this time around. But it does make me more wary about lynching Fea.

[Mnemosyne]

Brinn, don't forget that last game you were evil.

[the phantom]

Does anyone have an updated voting tally?

[Mirandir]

I'll make one if you give me a minute.

[Mirandir]

Kath ++Ner
Fea ++Hansy
Dury ++Sally
Steve ++Gwath
Eomer ++Sally
Rikae ++Steve
Hansy ++Fea
Lari ++Nog
Nog ++Fea
wilwa ++Steve
Gwath ++ Fea
Isa ++Gwath

Fea - 3, Sally - 2, Steve - 2, Gwath - 2, Nerwen, Hansy,and Nog - 1

Nerwen, tp, Brinn, sally, Mnem, Kath, Hansy and Mira still to vote.

[satansaloser2005]

Waiting for the vote tally just in case (like to avoid a tie if at all possible, since I believe it's random kill in those cases) but for now I'm thinking of voting Fea.


Her comments earlier were fairly normal for her, but at the same time....bad vibes and all. Hansy also bothers me greatly, and Nerwen (not that she's said much, but still) trips my radar as well, as in genuinely trips it, just because of how she reacted to being voted. The problem is that Nerwen doesn't look bad enough to lynch (because I know I always paint her evil and don't want to err just because I'm a silly girl) and I hate killing newbies on the first Day. If Hansy still bothers me toMorrow, though, I'll be double plussing him.



Checking the thread again and then voting. Oh, and apologies for not being around much toDay. I'll explain in another post.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nog

What I think is that she has no good intentions - whatever her role is. You may be right about her being the Black Pawn. It's the most probable answer. I agree. But as you said yourself: better a cobbler hanged than a gifted - or do you have a more believable case against a baddie? With Fea I feel we get someone who's not on the good side.

Yes, I can see that, and that's why I'm not demanding that you change your vote or anything. Your reasoning is fine.

It just so happens that I think mine is good too and I don't want anyone else to vote for her. I want to save her if I can.

*sigh*

At least if my efforts are not successful, she is probably not gifted, and almost certainly not a Bishop dream. With her track record of getting lynched, I can't imagine the Bishop using his Night 1 dream on her. So from a strict probability perspective, we could make much worse lynches. I'm just thinking we could also do better.

[the phantom]

Ah, crap. I hate this part. I have nothing against Gwath, Steve, or Sally, but I feel like I need to vote for one of them to save Fea.

++Gwath

EDIT: x-post with several people

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

It just so happens that I think mine is good too and I don't want anyone else to vote for her. I want to save her if I can.

*sigh*

Looking at Sally's vote I must say I will join your sigh...

*looks at the last posts* Oh my!

Numbers, anyone?

EDIT: Blah... too late.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Brinn, don't forget that last game you were evil.

Yeah, but I had no part in the whole "save Fea" thing. In fact, I was one who continued to advocate her lynching after no one else did. So, what are you trying to imply? That if this was an exact repeat then Gwath (who seems to be our rising candidate of late) is also innocent and Nogrod's evil?

But of course I don't expect this to be an exact replica of what happened that Day 3. But it'd be funny if it was.

[Brinniel]

Nerwen, tp, Brinn, sally, Mnem, Kath, Hansy and Mira still to vote.

Kath already voted.

[Isabellkya]

Mira - Kath and Hansy have already voted. xD


Edit. Replaced a comma with a dash.
X'd since Brin's #208

[Brinniel]

++Gwath

EDIT: X-ed with the last two

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Mira - Kath and Hansy have already voted. xD


Edit. Replaced a comma with a dash.
X'd since Brin's #208

What she said.


K, so I went to pick up my new laptop cord today but there wasn't the usual free internet connection that I pick up when I'm at my house so I wasn't able to get on before I went to my youth group function. And I only returned from that....erm, 20 minutes ago? Ish? So yeah, sorry about that. *shrugs*

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Voting is locked at 12:00 am, so... now.

Fea and Gwath to be put up for lynching, chosen by randomizer.