A hundredth re-read of the LotR

[alatar]

Speaking of the Nazgul, why does everyone after the hobbits' example call them 'the Black Riders' and yet know that these are 'THE' Black Riders? Hasn't any other group of humans ever ridden garbed in black? Had the Nazgul always ridden thus?

When Frodo and the hobbits meet with Gildor and the elves, everyone speaks of the Black Riders like the words have only one universal meaning. It's as if they are saying 'dragons' - a specific threat of known form. But the words black riders are too generic to carry the same specificity.

What if Frodo et al had called them the 'Saddled Snufflers?' Would Gildor have been taken aback at hearing that the snufflers rode again?

And speaking of sniffing, why does Tolkien via mostly Pippin make such a big deal that the creatures hunt by smell, and yet later on this becomes a pretty boring detail?

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by alatar

Speaking of the Nazgul, why does everyone after the hobbits' example call them 'the Black Riders' and yet know that these are 'THE' Black Riders? Hasn't any other group of humans ever ridden garbed in black? Had the Nazgul always ridden thus?

That's a good point. Especially since the Nazgul had not been seen west of Anduin in many centuries I'd say it's a tad hasty concluding that the black riders Frodo refers to must be the Nine. I suppose it could be argued that Gildor could read much more than what was actually said in Frodo's eyes.

Originally Posted by FotR

'You do not ask me or tell me much that concerns yourself, Frodo', said Gildor. 'But I already know a little, and I can read more in your face and in the thought behind your questions.

But how could Gildor read in Frodo's eyes that the Nine were pursuing him, if Frodo himself knew little or nothing about who they were, or at least did not know clearly that it was they who pursued him? The only satisfying answer I can come up with it that they already knew the Nazgul were about. But did they also know about the quest, why the Nine were after Frodo? No, says Gildor and I've no reason not to believe that. After all, if he knew Frodo were carrying the One ring which, if it came into the hands of the Nine, would surely put Middle Earth firmly in Sauron's grasp for an unforeseeable future, they would surely offer more assistance then a few reluctant pointers and a lecture about how little they care about the troubles of puny Hobbits and Men.

Originally Posted by Morth

I agree with your view of hiking regarding this chapter. It seems to always gets me in the mood for a camping trip. In fact, as it is Sunday, this entire discussion has given me the urge to go for a hike; therefore, I've decided to drag my daughter off on a fall color tour this afternoon.

Sounds like a good idea. I did the same this Sunday (minus the daughter) and even brought a camera. Here's a few samples of fall in Skåne, Sweden:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...e/DSCN1841.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../DSCN1860b.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...e/DSCN1850.jpg

[alatar]

Originally Posted by skip spence

That's a good point. Especially since the Nazgul had not been seen west of Anduin in many centuries I'd say it's a tad hasty concluding that the black riders Frodo refers must be the Nine. I suppose it could be argued that Gildor could read much more than what was actually said in Frodo's eyes.

That's what I thought, especially as we don't know their number, which, at this time, is either one or two. Maybe Mordor bred some new evil, like Mouth, that was searching the Shire. Pretty big jump to assume the Nine.

But how could Gildor read in Frodo's eyes that the Nine were pursuing him, if Frodo himself knew little or nothing about how they were, or at least did not know clearly that it was they who pursued him? The only satisfying answer I can come up with it that they already knew the Nazgul were about. But did they also know about the quest, why the Nine were after Frodo? No, says Gildor and I've no reason not to believe that. After all, if he knew Frodo were carrying the One ring which, if it came in the hands of the Nine, would surely put Middle Earth firmly in Sauron's grasp for an unforeseeable time, they would surely offer more assistance then a few reluctant pointers and a lecture about how little they care about the troubles of puny Hobbits and Men.

Odd, that. Maybe Gildor tapped into that foresight that is given at times to his people, and 'read a few chapters ahead.' And leaving the Hobbits with their burden was a deft plan to foil the enemy - nothing puts off Black Riders like random acts of stupidity (i.e. getting lost, getting caught by the Willow, getting caught by the Wights, putting on the Ring in Bree, etc).

Sounds like a good idea. I did the same this Sunday (minus the daughter) and even brought a camera. Here's a few samples of fall in Skåne, Sweden:

Great pictures! That cow looks dangerous.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by skip spence

But how could Gildor read in Frodo's eyes that the Nine were pursuing him, if Frodo himself knew little or nothing about how they were, or at least did not know clearly that it was they who pursued him?

Possibly because he had never seen such terror in the eyes of a hobbit? And possibly because the last time he had seen such terror in anyone's eyes, it was the result of an encounter with a Nazgul, whose chief weapon, we are told, is fear? Well, it's a mite of a long shot, but I suspect Gildor and his company, being wanderers, hear a lot of news and rumors that others might not. That Sauron has returned to Mordor is not uncommon knowledge, and at least some of the Nazgul have been active long before it was known he had returned. The Witch King, after all, merely fled the wars in Angmar; he was not defeated, and the Elves certainly knew it would only be a matter of time before he and the others became active again. It seems that outside the Shire, just about everyone is aware that evil things are stirring, and adding "terrifying evil" to "riders in Black" might very well make any Elf who's been around a while think "Nazgul."

Then again, maybe not, but what the heck.