A hundredth re-read of the LotR

[Boromir88]

In this chapter, we have the memorable saying "Short cuts make long delays." I'm wondering, is that originally invented by Tolkien, or has he picked it from somewhere?~Lommy

Hmm interesting, and of course this is also where we get Frodo's retort:

"That settles it!"..."Short cuts make delays, but inns make longer ones."

And we know Tolkien certainly loved spending time at the pub with his fellow Inklings.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Lommy, I am a native speaker, and I'm not aware of a common saying that goes "Short cuts makes long delays", so I'm inclined to credit Tolkien with inventing that one. It's all too often true, isn't it?!

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

In this chapter, we have the memorable saying "Short cuts make long delays." I'm wondering, is that originally invented by Tolkien, or has he picked it from somewhere? (I've never heard it anywhere else, which of course doesn't mean anything since I'm not a native speaker... But I haven't heard the Finnish equivalent of it either.)

In Swedish we have the saying genvägar är senvägar which pretty much has the same meaning as "Short cuts make long delays" with an even better ring to it - but you would know that, wouldn't you?

I'm going to check how it's translated into Swedish. Yes, it's "genvägar kan bli senvägar". I don't know if the good Prof has an interest in Swedish and Swedish sayings and picked it up from there or if he just made it up.

[Mister Underhill]

"Haste makes waste," we often say here, which amounts to the same.

Originally Posted by alatar

Okay, so I just want to show that I'm not crazy. Anyway, here are direct quotes from "Three is Company" that made me think that 'sniffing' was to be a big deal... [snip]

Almost as anticlimatic as this post.

I have a feeling this might be a criticism born of over-familiarity.

Try to think back to before you knew all there was to know about the Nazgûl (admittedly not much, relatively speaking, but still). The sniffing and snuffling, I think, is definitely an effective way to signal that these Riders are not human, that there's something weird (in all senses of that word) about them. Also it provides a nice bit of suspense when Frodo realizes that although he is out of sight, he is not effectively hidden from his pursuer -- it's only luck (Providence?... deus ex machina?... here we go...) that saves him.

We're a little jaded about supernatural creatures nowadays. You can't throw a stone into popular culture without hitting one. I think all that business about them not seeing the world of light as we do, but they can see through their horses' eyes and use men and other creatures as spies is pretty nifty. Put it in the context of the mid-50's and it's even less anticlimactic.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

:
So, which one is this chapter for you? Scary or funny? Or maybe both? And why do you think so?

Definitely a scary chapter with that signal the Nazgul sends out and let's not forget the climatic trip to the ferry with farmer Maggot.

We also meet farmer Maggot in this chapter. He seems to be one of those characters everybody likes. I don't think I've ever met anyone who wouldn't like him.

Indeed, farmer Maggot is one of those characters that anyone can relate to no matter what country he/she may live in. He reminds me of a roughneck neighbor we used to have, he to kept ferocious dogs that everyone was afraid of, but he was still a capitol fellow once you got to know him.

[skip spence]

I sometimes wonder whether JRRT had a passion for mushrooms matching that of the Hobbits. I would say so or else he wouldn't have dedicated a whole chapter to this culinary treat. Whereas I can't read "Three Is Company" without yearning for a cross country-walk and I can't read "A Short-Cut To Mushroms" without desiring a heap of butter-fried mushrooms and perhaps a vintage Old Vineyards to wash it down with.

Mmmmmmmmm, Mushrooms. *drools*

[Groin Redbeard]

I'm afraid that I don't have much to say for this chapter other than it was a creative way of getting Merry and Pippin back with Frodo.

Here is another point where we see that Hobbit nature come out in our four heroes. It is almost startling how loyal they are to Frodo after what Pippin and Sam had gone through with the Black Riders and all, yet still braver of them to dare plan of going into the Old Forest (I have an analysis on that but I'll save it for the next chapter).

Besides that I'm afraid I don't have much to say, other than Tolkien writes one of the best baths songs I've ever heard in this chapter.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And we know Tolkien certainly loved spending time at the pub with his fellow Inklings.

Maybe the saying was born out of bitter (ho ho) experience, as yet another night out with Clive and the lads would turn into a late session with the Professor having to fly home on his beer scooter and the volume on the house turning up to 11 as he vainly tried to get the key in the door quietly without waking up the wife?

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Try to think back to before you knew all there was to know about the Nazgûl (admittedly not much, relatively speaking, but still). The sniffing and snuffling, I think, is definitely an effective way to signal that these Riders are not human, that there's something weird (in all senses of that word) about them.

Indeed. Yes, a creature which snuffles all the time might make you think of the workmate with the perennially runny nose who doesn't seem to understand the uses of Kleenex and who makes you feel sick but.....a creature which snuffles around in the dark is most definitely not human, and it's pretty scary if you think about all the possible reasons why they would want to sniff you out. If anything, it makes me think of Hannibal Lector and his "sssss-ssssss" thing and sniffing at Clarice Starling. Horrible.

Anyway, I'd better read the next chapter.....

[alatar]

In this chapter we lose Fatty Bolger, said to be a good friend of Frodo's, but never to really show up again. It's interesting that Fatty would rather play at being Frodo than to journey with his friend. Obviously he didn't know how deadly such a choice could have been (it's been said that, inside even the fattest hobbit, there exists down deep - almost buried - the legs of a sprinter).

[Thinlómien]

I thought I'd only post when I've read this and the following chapter but this discussion and my reading pace are so pitiful that I had a change of plans...

I like Merry very much in this chapter. He seems to be a natural born organizer of stuff. And he's such a lovely person too. Or what would you say of this quote?

"It all depends on what you want," put in Merry. "You can expect us to stick to you through thick and thin - to the bitter end. And you can trust us to keep any secret of yours - closer than you keep it yourself. But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo."

It never struck me like it did now, but it's so very true, and so very beautifully said. One more piece of proof that Tolkien was a wise guy with a gift for phrasing his thoughts in a touching manner.

I also find it interesting how easily Merry found out about the Ring. Makes me think that it wouldn't have been to odd if someone else had known about it too...

[CSteefel]

Probably less to say about this chapter than some, but a few things strike me.

One was the story from Merry about how he found out about the Ring, seeing Bilbo disappear off the road as the Sackville-Baggins were approaching.

And then the short poem along the model of a dwarf-song when they decide they will all set forth together, with one verse:

To Rivendell, where Elves yet dwell
In glades beneath the misty fell,
Through moor and waste we ride in haste,
And whither then we cannot tell.

And then I think we get the first of Frodo's dreams (more later in Bombadil's house), where he begins overlooking a dark forest from a high window (the Old Forest?), but then he hears a sound he takes initially as the wind coming through the trees, then realizing it is the sound of the Sea:

Then he knew that it was not leaves, but the sound of the Sea far-off; a sound he had never heard in waking life, though it had often troubled his dreams. Suddenly he found he was out in the open. There were no trees after all. He was on a dark heath, and there was a strange salt smell in the air. Looking up he saw before him a tall white tower, standing alone on a high ridge. A great desire came over him to climb the tower and see the Sea. He started to struggle up the ridge towards the tower; but suddenly a light came in the sky, and there was noise of thunder.

The tower is clearly one of those in the Tower Hills, perhaps the one that had traditionally held the Elendil Stone. Less clear is the sudden appearance of the light and thunder. Otherwise, one of the first of Frodo's premonitions of his passing in to the West...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

I'd like to jump in here and make a comment on the
last chapter, about Farmer Maggott. he seems to be
one of those interesting barely introduced figures
(like Gildor) who alludes to something thereby giving
depth to the story. Like JRRT said in Letters about
"barely glimpsed vistas", something about being needed
to give depth to a story/world, and if explored/exploited
by the storytellrt then in need of further barely cited vistas to
give a continued feeling of depth. As to Maggott's importance
beyond that of the hobbits understanding consider Tom Bombadil's observation:

...he made no secret that he owed his recent knowledge
largely to Farmer Maggott, whom he seemed to regard as a person
of more importance than they had imagined. 'There's earth under his
old feet, and clay on his fingers; wisdom in his bones, and both his
eyes are open,' said Tom.

And of course, Maggott wasn't daunted by Sharkey's gang.
(In a way, he was taking on a fallen maia)!

An interesting thread here, 'praps I'll follow along.

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

I'd like to jump in here and make a comment on the
last chapter, about Farmer Maggott. he seems to be
one of those interesting barely introduced figures
(like Gildor) who alludes to something thereby giving
depth to the story. Like JRRT said in Letters about
"barely glimpsed vistas", something about being needed
to give depth to a story/world, and if explored/exploited
by the storytellrt then in need of further barely cited vistas to
give a continued feeling of depth. As to Maggott's importance
beyond that of the hobbits understanding consider Tom Bombadil's observation:

And of course, Maggott wasn't daunted by Sharkey's gang.
(In a way, he was taking on a fallen maia)!

An interesting thread here, 'praps I'll follow along.

I often wondered (especially with the last reading of the Bombadil chapter) about where Bombadil met up with Farmer Maggot. I am assuming that Bombadil did not leave the confines of the Old Forest, since it is said elsewhere that he sticks with the borders he has set. So it must be Farmer Maggott crossing the river??

[Thinlómien]

I have been reading LotR slowly and occasionally on my own, continuing from what I started here, and I'm currently in the chapter Treebeard. (Wonderful progress, don't you think? )

My question is, is there anybody out there who would like to continue reading from where we left (A Conspiracy Unmasked is the last chapter that has been talked about) or even start from the beginning (since we only got this far) and maybe post a post or two about the previous chapters and then continue with me from the Old Forest onwards?

I would like to continue the discussion here.

[Galadriel55]

I just want to add something to the discussion in general, not just this particular topic.
I think that is anythink in Tolkien's books seems insignificant to you - think again. Every single line in his works has its purpose and weight, even if you don't notice it right away. The first time I read LotR, I thought about how useless the first chapter is. After understanding it better, I realized that that chapter in really one of the most significant things in the book, because it highlights the change in Frodo, Sam, Pippin, and Merry in the end of the book. Every sentence, even the punctuation, has its purpose, useless as it seems.

[Leyrana Silumiel]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I have been reading LotR slowly and occasionally on my own, continuing from what I started here, and I'm currently in the chapter Treebeard. (Wonderful progress, don't you think? )

My question is, is there anybody out there who would like to continue reading from where we left (A Conspiracy Unmasked is the last chapter that has been talked about) or even start from the beginning (since we only got this far) and maybe post a post or two about the previous chapters and then continue with me from the Old Forest onwards?

I would like to continue the discussion here.

I personally would LOVE it if we could go back and start over again. When the very first chapter-by-chapter was done (and the re-run that followed) in the subforums, I did not have my own computer, so it was very difficult to follow along with the discussions and participate. I've been dying to really join in on a chapter-by-chapter reread but there doesn't really seem to be any going on lately.