Dwarves vs Elves

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Actually they don't really care what other races think of them. We can see this in the way that they cut themselves off from the rest of the world in their mountain strongholds, and how they keep things to themselves: their language, weapons, history, and knowledge. If they really wanted to have the elves know about them, I seriously doubt that the Silmarillion would be chiefly made up of doings of the elves. The Dwarf philosophy of comparing themselves to others strikes me as this: "Hey, we know were better than those crazy elves or humans, so why bother letting them know about us: it's none of their bussiness! Get away from me!"

Strangely enough, that's one of the things which I like most about them.

Dwarves, like Hobbits, are often underestimated because of their size, but they are more determined than any other race in Middle Earth. Most people don't like them because they are too prideful of themselves, well don't they have a right to be? With fighting like that it's pretty hard not to be, just think what other tales of glory that they have kept secret.

I've always had the impression (perhaps from other fantasy media) that while dwarves are only about 5' tall, they still weigh about 150 lbs of solid muscle. If they were 6 footers, they'd be built like The Hulk.

Combine that with their stamina from years of splitting rocks and forging metal, and you have some very formidable fighters. They remind me of a race of beings who resemble Naim Suleymanoglu:
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html...rts/07.22.html

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Strangely enough, that's one of the things which I like most about them.

Yehaw! Am I correct in believing that I have found a person that shares my love for the smallest, yet greatest race in all of Middle Earth? In other words: do love Dwarves like I do?

Originally Posted by Andsigil

I've always had the impression (perhaps from other fantasy media) that while dwarves are only about 5' tall, they still weigh about 150 lbs of solid muscle. If they were 6 footers, they'd be built like The Hulk. Combine that with their stamina from years of splitting rocks and forging metal, and you have some very formidable fighters.

Exactely, never trust and Elf and never underestimate a Dwarf!

Funny that you should mention that, I was reading the Silmarillion today and I came across an interesting paragraph that describes how hardy the Dwarves are made.

Originally Posted by Of Aule and Yavanna

Since they were to come in the days of the power of Melkor, Aule made the Dwarves strong to endure. Therefore they are stone-hard, stubborn, fast in friendship, and in enmity, and they suffer toil and hunger and hurt of body more hardily than all other speaking peoples...

Just thought that this might be of interest to all of those Elf fans who think that Dwarves are no match for the Noldor.

[Inziladun]

I'm not generally fond of "who could beat who" threads myself, however this caught my eye

As far as I know, the Ruin of Doriath is the only place where we see Elves and Dwarves fighting one another. It's poor evidence, I know, but if poor evidence is all there is then I'll take it.

I seem to recall a one-on-one dwarf-elf confrontation that I haven't seen yet mentioned: Mîm the Dwarf and Beleg Cúthalion on Amon Rûdh.

Mîm crept out of the shadows of his house; and as the sun rose over the mists of Sirion he stood beside the dead men on the hill-top. But he perceived that not all those that lay there were dead; for by one his gaze was returned, and he looked in the eyes of Beleg the Elf. Then with hatred long-stored Mîm stepped up to Beleg, and drew forth the sword Anglachel that lay beneath the body of one that had fallen beside him; but Beleg stumbling up seized back the sword and thrust it at the Dwarf, and Mîm in terror fled wailing from the hill-top.

Not much of a fight, granted: an old Dwarf and an Elf wounded nearly to death. Yet Beleg simply jumped up and took the sword away. Mîm didn't even have the excuse of being taken by surprise: he knew Beleg was alive. I think it's safe to say that if Mîm hadn't run Beleg would have killed him.

And I would also consider the source. These tales of valor are being written from the point of view of Elves or Men, or even hobbits. We never really get to hear a tale told from the Dwarven point of view. I'm willing to bet they'd sound considerably different!

I can come up with one: ROTK Appendix A-Durin's Folk. The Battle of Azanulbizar where Dáin Ironfoot killed Azog the Orc. All that section ostensibly is drawn from information provided by Gimli.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Not much of a fight, granted: an old Dwarf and an Elf wounded nearly to death. Yet Beleg simply jumped up and took the sword away. Mîm didn't even have the excuse of being taken by surprise: he knew Beleg was alive. I think it's safe to say that if Mîm hadn't run Beleg would have killed him.

But he was a petty dwarf. Didn't the elves used to hunt them for fun before they realised that they were sentient?

[Inziladun]

But he was a petty dwarf. Didn't the elves used to hunt them for fun before they realised that they were sentient?

Yes, they did. The Petty-Dwarves, however, were said to have been "banished in ancient days from the great Dwarf-cities of the east." They were exiles, but there is no indication they were less capable in combat than the "civilised" Dwarves.

Beleg also was not Noldorin. That being the case, one might think a Dwarf would have an even more difficult time with the likes of Maedhros or Fingon.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Yehaw! Am I correct in believing that I have found a person that shares my love for the smallest, yet greatest race in all of Middle Earth? In other words: do love Dwarves like I do?

Let me put it this way: I don't want to live in earth of 2008.

I'd rather live in Middle Earth, sometime in the Third Age, perhaps. Since I'm human and not dwarf, I'd live in a place near dwarves, like outside of the Iron Hills, in Lake Town, or in a homestead near the Blue Mountains, where I could invite dwarves to my table for ale and beef after enjoying ourselves in my forge.