Tol-in-Gaurhoth L: Battle of the Fandoms

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Isabell, McCaber, Rikae and Lalwendë are pretty consistent all the time. Now that might look good to a hasty player but in the end only the wolves have an easy time being consistent as they know what they are doing...

Can't speak for the others (two of whom are high on my own suspicion list at the moment), but it's been easy for me to be consistent because no one seems to agree with me. It might seem perverse, but it's when too many people start agreeing with my suspicions that I usually start doubting them (suspecting wolvish bandwagoning). Too much consensus makes me antsy.

[Rikae]

That aforementioned "suspicion list":

Naughty:
Rikae - Naughty, as always, but not wolfishly or cobblerishly so (unless my right hand doesn't know what my left is doing ).
Nilp - For reasons already given (copying nonsensical arguments wording and all, faulty reasoning) plus odd voting yesterDay.
Sally - For some very creepy voting yesterday.
McCaber - For reasons given before. I think he's flying under the radar, and what little he gives us hasn't been reassuring.
Isabellkya - For similar reasons as McCaber. There are also some specific things in her posts I didn't like, but I'll have to go back over them later.

Neutral:
Nerwen - She hasn't set off any alarms yet, but she hasn't inspired my trust, either.
Boro - Yes, I suspected him before, and I still do, but moderately. Sometimes he looks downright evil, sometimes not... he's the closest here to the "naughty" category.
Fea - I haven't seen anything particularly worrying, but I'm wary of her anyway.
Mith - Nothing particularly bad, but she seems a bit slippery.
Lalwendë - Although - she played the "confused innocent" role during her time as a wolf, if I recall correctly - she seems perhaps cobblerish, but not wolfish now.

Nice:
Nogrod - For the time being, anyway, I think he looks innocent. Trouble is, I have a hard time spotting evil Nogs - he tends to look the same to me whatever his role.
Mac - He looks ok to me (except for defending Nogrod being out of character... but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one). His vote on Day 1 looks good.
Shasta - No alarms so far, but he hasn't given us enough for me to decide he looks innocent, either. Still, not really a suspect now.

[Mithalwen]

Well I am off. Just to focus minds - since seemingly there is a point of stating the obvious. I make it 13 players left. 2 wolves, 1 cobbler, 3 gifted, 7 ordos. Bear the different agendas in mind while looking at suspects.

Time to go home..... time to go home, Mithalwen is waving good bye....

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

It might seem perverse, but it's when too many people start agreeing with my suspicions that I usually start doubting them (suspecting wolvish bandwagoning). Too much consensus makes me antsy.

It's nothing perverse indeed. Or then we are both perverts as that is very much a shared feeling.

In the first games I tended to jump on those who suspected me - and it is a natural reaction as it feels bad - but one should get over it in the end. Aren't all those suspecting your own high-innocentness the ultra-evil...?

Also it was easy to see that those who disagreed with your suspicions in general were purposefully preventing your own great ideas to win the day.

I'm at least hoping I'm getting a bit better at overcoming these but sadly the gut reactions are still functioning even if I know where the ideas they bring me come from...

Just to give you an example.

I have been quite comfortable with Mac's sober attitude towards me this game and was almost delighted when he shared some of my ideas - and I do owe my continued existence in this game to him to be sure (that's pretty tough to overlook - although it would indeed be the perfect trick performed by the wolf!). But somewhere in the back of my head there has been a quiet voice squeaking: "Look, look, he's dangerous now, why is he doing all that? Every other time he's at you from his first post onwards?" (just a slight overexaggeration for the dramatics).

So I'm very much aware that he might be toying with me with his attitude but the feel-good factor does help a bit to overcome the critical instinct inside. That's just how it works even if you know it works like that.

EDIT: X'd from Rikae...

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I won't vote know becasue I don't have too but it very likely will be for Lalwende
Reasons

Too much ic nonsense day one accompanied by a list of names with helpful comments such as No idea. About only constructive comment said that she thougth I might have a special role. Cheers. If you think I am a wolf say it, if not don't point me out to them...

Day 2 we have paranoia without good reason.

Overall spectacularly jumpy - jumps on to other peoples ideas. Professes expertise on wolfing on one outing but professes not to know the set up... goodness knows I sometimes skim the narrative for the hard facts but surely everyone checks out the basics before the start - no of wolves, gifteds, vote type? Don't they?

Altogether far too like the last time I spotted her as a wolf... which perhaps means she is a cobbler, but I can't believe she is up to any good.

Most of the above we could say about you.

You wrote just as much 'IC nonsense' on the first day (I think I did 2-3 posts with it in before I got bored with it) as I did. You made no constructive comments. I started day 2 with my own theories, no other people's, even though sticking your neck out does make you bandwagon fodder (it would be a boring game if everyone played it safe and just hid away).

And as for the (yawn) thing about me not knowing about the votes, I perhaps have more excuse than most to be distracted but I have not stooped to pull out excuses until now. Oh, there it is, I made an excuse, now I'm just the same as everyone else

Are you, to quote the mighty Duran Duran, Hungry Like The Wolf.....?

You are singularly obsessed with this, and yet you accuse others of having obsessions over someone in the game? Do you know your own tricks best? That's coupled with the small suspicions I've already had for you, based on some seemingly flippant (artfully flippant?) voting and early voting.


Edit - and late voting. Very late voting, folks. There's an interesting Mith/Boro exchange on page 4 where Mith asks Boro if he wants to get lynched, and then she votes for CoD at the last minute (Boro would have been curtains otherwise). Boro says that he 'wouldn't have been the biggest loss'. What? Out of 3 wolves? And now I am on their bandwagon...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

If you want somebody to say yes to a request, you ask them in person.

If you want to know what a person's really like? You don't ask. You accuse. You make a scene. You cause some trouble. And you observe reactions. Reactions are very much more telling than actions.

Shasta and Boro, congrats for passing my unofficial test for the day. Tomorrow, who knows. Today, you're off my hitlist.

I could see a Mithwolf in this game...

[Boromir88]

I have debated whether I wanted to say this, because I'm sure some of you will be reminded of my last village (when I was fanged) and I did a comprehensive Durelin (the seer) analysis after we killed her. But, I don't care, I'm going to say this about Brin's death and if it makes me look furry, so be it. It needs to be brought up.

A post of Brin's that stuck out (to me) is post 196 where she gives her thoughts on everyone in the village. Thus, I think it's possible the wolves might have seen this as the seer trying to give out information. Brin says "I will look at [insert name here] more..." or "I want to see..." I guess the problem is words like "look" and "see" aren't necessarily seer hints, because they're commonly used by everyone. But, what if the wolves went after Brin, because they thought she was the seer and in 196 she was trying to give hints.

I think that because her "possible wolf list" is really short:

Possible Wolf
Nogrod
Sally

And here's what she said about Nogrod:

Nogrod: I don't really like the reasoning behind his suspicions. As I mentioned yesterDay, I think was reading too much into Gwath's post. He's definitely someone I need to take a closer look at tomorrow.

And Sally:

satansaloser2005: I agree that her vote was definitely the most suspicious of Day 1. But it isn't just the vote...I agree with Boromir; her behaviour feels a bit furry to me. She's another that I want to take a closer look at tomorrow.

This would point towards Nogrod and sally then. Durelin obviously notes she doesn't know for "certain" about these two, but if one of them was a wolf, maybe they were looking to silence the (assumed) seer, before she found out for sure?

By Brin's admittance her "no idea" list is too big, and she has 5 people (including herself) in the "probably innocent" list. I will add on though there was a lot of dialogue between Nogrod, Brin, and me on whether the seer would dream of Brin, or not. Maybe the wolves thought that was a tip off too? I don't see anything else that would suggest some type of seer hint, and right now I'm thinking this idea is a bit of a stretch.

Edit: oops...when I said "Durelin obviously notes..." I meant Brin.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

If you want somebody to say yes to a request, you ask them in person.

If you want to know what a person's really like? You don't ask. You accuse. You make a scene. You cause some trouble. And you observe reactions. Reactions are very much more telling than actions.

Shasta and Boro, congrats for passing my unofficial test for the day. Tomorrow, who knows. Today, you're off my hitlist.

I could see a Mithwolf in this game...

Do I get a gold Charms feather?

In all seriousness, Lal is acting extremely oddly. I could definately see her as the cobbler in this instance; I'm as-yet unsure of her wolfishness factor. I'll do some more reading.

Expect more posting from me after rehearsal (e.g. in about three or four hours from now).

Edit: X'd with Boro.

[Boromir88]

Boro says that he 'wouldn't have been the biggest loss'. What? Out of 3 wolves? And now I am on their bandwagon...~Lal

If I had any special role I wouldn't want to get lynched on Day 1, and would do whatever I could to not get lynched. As no one special, I would have liked to stay around longer, but if I did get lynched it wouldn't have mattered.

I think Mith's provided good reasoning to why she's jumped onboard against you (and don't you think you over-exaggerate? 2 people doth a bandwagon not make).

Anyway, I'll tell you why I don't like your "I'm going to be killed by the wolves" stuff last night. If you're innocent you're either gifted or ordinary.

1. If you're gifted I have no idea why you would be so obvious in telling the wolves you're gifted, and clueing them into killing you . It would make sense for the hunter, but you can't be the hunter, because there is no hunter in this village.

2. You're an ordinary innocent trying to pose as someone gifted (thus providing cover for the real gifteds). If you're innocent I say bravo, but obviously the wolves didn't buy it so just give up the act.

3. You're a baddie. You're either a wolf and trying to scare people into believe you're gifted and thus you shouldn't be lynched. Or you're the cobbler just creating confusion.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If I had any special role I wouldn't want to get lynched on Day 1, and would do whatever I could to not get lynched. As no one special, I would have liked to stay around longer, but if I did get lynched it wouldn't have mattered.

Anyway, I'll tell you why I don't like your "I'm going to be killed by the wolves" stuff last night. If you're innocent you're either gifted or ordinary.

2. You're an ordinary innocent trying to pose as someone gifted (thus providing cover for the real gifteds). If you're innocent I say bravo, but obviously the wolves didn't buy it so just give up the act.

Love the way you neatly side-step the notion that those with special roles include those who are wolves; why would you signal your approval of Mith's vote for CoD and you 'not being the biggest loss' if you had a role other than that of a Wolf, seeing as only wolves know each others' identities Page 4 is evidence enough for anyone...plus we know Mith is likely to kill a fellow wolf when they look like they are doomed - I'm not the only one to note that.

I also love the way you and Mith assume to know what the wolves think about my theories yesterday. Funny that, given that Brinniel being killed was the most obvious curveball they could throw in.

[Nogrod]

That was a fine one Boro!

(EDIT: The theory about Brinn being looked by the wolves as being the seer that is. Just to make it clear this is not referring to Boro's post on Lalwendë)

I mean I really appreciated that one. I've never thought you lacked capabilities or were not in these games for good sport.

The scenario you suggest is near plausible* one, though as you say yourself:

I guess the problem is words like "look" and "see" aren't necessarily seer hints, because they're commonly used by everyone.

Not indeed as they are used about 90% of the time people talk about their intentions of what they will do the next Day or later that Day.

But the problem with this is that this kind of speculation is coming from you! Really, when you're innocent you're quite straightforward, no monkey-bussiness, no conspiracies, "if it talks like it & walks like it - it is it" -man. You were supposed to be the guy who always told me not to fabricate too far-fetched or streched arguments as they were no good.

Then again it really looks like you've doing this somehow in "earnest" - or at least wished to make it look like a bit more serious thought - even if the reservations you put there yourself. That was no banter or joke thrown on board which you do all the time when innocent as well but basically a semi-serious effort to really suggest the focus the search to be adjusted.

I don't see you as a wolf. But my idea of you being actually the cobbler of the town just strengthens...


* "near plausible" meaning I will keep this in mind when looking at Sally but if my sense of your cobblerism doesn't come down I will in the end probably ignore it... if you thought by that way to save Sally whom you think is a wolf, then kudos for you! You deserve a feather into your hat that being the case.

EDIT: X'd with Boro

[Nogrod]

Decent points on Lal, Boro. I'm actually torn between which one of you is the cobbler...