A Query...

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I agree with more or less everybody on this thread: it is probable that tarde between these nations existed. I can very well see Gondorian nobility using luxury products that have been brought from Harad or far Eastern lands. Ivory, silk, spices maybe even hides of exotic animals. What the Kings or Stewards thought, or whether this trade was official or legal, that I don't know. I can very well see it being banned at least from time to time.

As for coffee, it has been discussed in this thread, Coffee!, to a great extent. Maybe some of you will find that interesting. What I said on the thread was and I still think that reasonable enough an explanation. Of course it can be argued...

Now there was a thread, Lommy! And speaking of threads, we can ask if exotic spices, coffees, gems were the only objects of trade. In what did hobbits drape themselves?

Was it linen, woven from the flax plants that every good hobbit family grew in its garden? Clothes couldn't rightly be made from cotton, as cotton seems to raise the same difficulty as coffee climate-wise.

Could silk be harvested from local silk worms, or would it be imported? Was sheep farming a regular occupation amongst hobbits? Pity the poor hobbit who was allergic to wool.

Of what material did Arwen sew her banner?--Esty, I'm sure you can put your finger on this.

Trade need not be prompted solely by luxury items, but by any need.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Now there was a thread, Lommy! And speaking of threads, we can ask if exotic spices, coffees, gems were the only objects of trade. In what did hobbits drape themselves?

Drapery?

Trade need not be prompted solely by luxury items, but by any need.

Exactly. And surely some of the noble born - or at least their teenaged children - showed off by using/consuming items from banned nations. Not all were 100% loyal to the King/Country.

And what of those that were hybrids - citizens or children of both nations (i.e. parents were from Rohan and Dunland)? Where did their loyalties lay? In starving kin or fat King?

And what of persons like Bill Ferny? He would have traded his mother or a few hobbits for a genuine White Wizard White Hand-emblazened Helm (protection against organic missiles +4).

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by He Who Has Fathered His Nest

Exactly. And surely some of the noble born - or at least their teenaged children - showed off by using/consuming items from banned nations. Not all were 100% loyal to the King/Country.

Alatar,as you appear to be our #1 Expert in Children--a title once held by Thenamir (whose brood now have I believe outgrown the roost)--I think you have fingered the less nefarious avenue for illicit trade. A surefire way to get teenagers to do something or want something is to ban it.

Originally Posted by The Big K

Elves seem the most likely to be the great weavers of Middle earth...but I don't think there is ever any mention of where they obtained their materials.

Yet trade can be so, well, like being a green grocer--at least to the English hupper classes. Doesn't strike me as part of elven aesthetics. So who would they get to do the toil? dwarves?

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Alatar,as you appear to be our #1 Expert in Children--a title once held by Thenamir (whose brood now have I believe outgrown the roost)--I think you have fingered the less nefarious avenue for illicit trade. A surefire way to get teenagers to do something or want something is to ban it.

It's either that or that I see the worst in people, being cynical and all.

Also, you always () have to assume that nothing's 100% and that there's always those on the fringe that are following a different directive. And what of the Kinstrife? What trade commenced during that time, and what continued afterwards? Isn't blood thicker than water, and money thicker than both?

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Yet trade can be so, well, like being a green grocer--at least to the English hupper classes. Doesn't strike me as part of elven aesthetics. So who would they get to do the toil? dwarves?

I don't know about that. There were the raft-elves in The Hobbit, for example.

As far as trading with the Men of Darkness goes...I think it boils down to why people trade at all. It really almost seems instinctive.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I don't know about that. There were the raft-elves in The Hobbit, for example.

Well, yes, but, there is that chestnut about The Hobbit not exactly belonging or fitting in well with the Legendarium. Tra la la la lally.

As far as trading with the Men of Darkness goes...I think it boils down to why people trade at all. It really almost seems instinctive.

Do you mean instinctive in terms of built into their genes (or evolved) or do you mean part of the inheritance from the initial music/creation?

Originally Posted by alatar

Isn't blood thicker than water, and money thicker than both?

I'll take wine please. I believe there were some countries to the east known for such beverages.